RE: Grammar
[quote]ORIGINAL: acerc Geren you would be correct. It has been corrected. There is still one more error in my original post. [/quote] No question mark after rampant, instead of a period. Sneaky.
Posted on: 8/14/2012 7:54 PM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "The Clubhouse"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11193834

RE: Great Planes Sequence F3A
I have been flying mine right up until the "hangar crash" where the Christmas tree stand w/integrated wooden base FELL ONTO THE WING/STAB....that...was the end of that. So. Ordered the replacement simply because this is WAY better than the 47" Vanquish I have, larger, slower, more visible, and really very good, even through Masters class stuff (and OLD FAI stuff - new stuff, don't know). Anyway - I enjoy it a lot, when it isn't too hot to fly it, and when I can see the thing (lens implants last month for cataracts - all better now). At any rate - flyer88 - I flew with stock incidences, whatever they were, and loved it. FLew pretty neutral, and no weird coupling unless I pushed the CG back too far. Used 4S 3000, Aeolian 42-50-800 with an APC 13.6, peaked around 70 amps....but who would fly this at full bore, and why??? Really like your dual elevator/turnbuckle setup. Could you list the parts so I could duplicate it?
Posted on: 7/31/2012 6:24 PM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "Electric Pattern Aircraft"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11176564

RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System
+1 No mini/micro rx's...but also no analog servos.
Posted on: 7/15/2012 4:41 AM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "RC Radios, Transmitters, Receivers, Servos, gyros"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11155794

RE: Pattern ship winglet.
Me, sorry, too...I confused T with "winglet"....which I guess is technically a fin because of it's vertical aspect. I think on the Voodoo, and on Mark's Designs, the fins add to the "side lifting area" of the fuse for rolling maneuvers, which is probably a cat of a different breed, purpose-wise, from the "canalizer T". Great discussion - hope to learn more about these mysteries.
Posted on: 7/8/2012 6:46 PM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "Electric Pattern Aircraft"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11148063

RE: Pattern ship winglet.
You know, those are cool-enough looking that even if they didn't work, it would be worth doing just for conversation's sake....very neat...
Posted on: 7/8/2012 4:14 PM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "Electric Pattern Aircraft"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11147935

RE: Pattern ship winglet.
Hi, guys...some of you may remember me, hopefully you'll also remember Nat Penton...Lousiana's "Voodoo Guru", who did tweaks to Pattern airplanes a decade or so before some of the 'magical fixes' were invented by big namers. Nat *KNEW* what he was doing, and I flew his .90 powered Voodoo with a canopy strake/fin like Dave L. describes when I was in FAI. It was - hands down - the very best knife edge-ing plane that I flew, EVER, and his rudder area was reduced as well as it's travels. Scientific design would be a wonderful thing, but we have such great experienced and knowledgeable "tweakers" out there that it's really great. I don't play pattern anymore, but I do have a couple of "good" planes (which means they fly better now than I ever did) and I enjoy precision. I just wanted to give Nat the recognition for many of his innovations. If I remember correctly, he was also the first to "prove" that pattern planes without airfoil landing gear and pants "flew better"....he and DIck Hanson (way back, now) knew the value and practical benefit of performance over pretty....God bless 'em!!!!!!!!
Posted on: 7/8/2012 12:34 PM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "Electric Pattern Aircraft"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11147676

RE: Cataracts and Color Shift
I hope my friends are still subscribed and get this...here we are, 11 months after my original post, and after my annual checkup end of June, we found that BOTH cataracts had appreciably advanced, to the extent that I handily failed EVERY screening test to satisfy eligibility and medical necessity for lens implants. It is difficult to describe how quickly these things went downhill, but it happened FAST (and completely unrelated to my diabetes) I have one eye finished, second one coming this Tuesday, and I have to say, the right eye w/ 20/20 and perfect color registration is giving me hope that I'll be able to fly again. I hope I will, as it has been extremely difficult to fly at all with the loss of color and depth perception. Jon - you certainly hit it spot on - but unfortunately, I had to wait until I met medical criterion. I wonder if I will fly any better being able to see the plane for the first time in years???
Posted on: 7/7/2012 6:37 PM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11147008

RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System
Michel - you don't really "reverse" the switch settings....just the values for "0" and "1" on the DR/EXP settings screen. So if you want "0" to be "FULL" High rate, you just set that value to 100% (or whatever), and flip the switch, "1" settings, adjust the "Lower" value, say 40%, in that position. Remember that you must set these for EVERY channel, there is not a MASTER way to do this. Of course, to get very complicated, you *could* setup a Flight Mode with all those settings, and assign a switch to change between flight modes. Easiest is probably to just set the DR/EXP for each. [quote]ORIGINAL: michel gravelle Hi And good morning on this very rainy day . This is just someing , I want to know if we can change in the program . When we are in duel rates , ( Hi-Lo ) , are we able to change ( or reverse ) , the position of the switch from , Hi-Lo , to Lo-Hi . I,m sure we are able to do it , but I just cann,t get to it . Thanks in advance Michel [/quote]
Posted on: 6/2/2012 5:06 AM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "RC Radios, Transmitters, Receivers, Servos, gyros"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11103550

RE: Why the near obsession with over powering airplanes?
[quote]ORIGINAL: suddengustofgravity I see some fliers that couldn't fly if their planes weren't overpowered. They takeoff and immediately stick the nose of the plane straight up rather than flying it like it was an airplane (and I'm not talking about 3D'ers). A plane with the recommended motor would stall and crash. They fly motors with attached planes rather than planes with attached motors. [/quote] +1 *usually identifiable by inability to taxi. They must place the motor/prop with its mounting device on the runway before blasting off.
Posted on: 5/25/2012 2:06 PM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "ARF or RTF"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11094620

RE: Why the near obsession with over powering airplanes?
[quote]ORIGINAL: AB Bob I see it in posts all the time. "I have a .60 plane, would a 20CC engine fit it?" A .60 size plane is made by the manufacturer to take a .60 size engine. Why are a lot of people putting in twice the size recommended ? I just don't get it. Do they think the manufacturers know nothing about the structural integrity of their own products? I say
Posted on: 5/25/2012 1:34 PM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "ARF or RTF"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11094590

RE: Goldwing 50cc Pitts Python V3.
[quote]ORIGINAL: Mustangman40 [quote]ORIGINAL: scale only 4 me I flew mine today for the first time since the rebuilt,, all went well with the airframe,, but had ignition issues again,, I'll get it sorted out for next time. [/quote] Good to here you got her back in the air again, hope you get your ignition problem worked out... Question for you and Bob, are you guys using flying wires
Posted on: 4/10/2012 1:44 PM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "ARF or RTF"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11036449

RE: Goldwing 50cc Pitts Python V3.
I want to be clear - the "short wing tube" simply meant that it looked pretty short (or I was expecting something longer), but at any rate - the length was plenty sufficient to the task. I think the way both wings tie together with the cabane assembly and the interplane struts it seemed quite strong. I had no issues due to it.
Posted on: 4/5/2012 7:45 AM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "ARF or RTF"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11029236

RE: Goldwing 50cc Pitts Python V3.
[quote]ORIGINAL: Mustangman40 [quote]ORIGINAL: scale only 4 me [quote]ORIGINAL: Mustangman40 One thing you might notice is the TE of the Stab and the LE of the ELV., the covering is kind of transparent and you can see that they didn't add any hinge blocks to the 5/8'' thick TE/LE... I tried a Robart hinge point and it will only grab with two barbs, not good.. The rudder is the same way, no blocking for a pin style hinge.... Jimbo [/quote] I ended up changing the elevator hinges also, they did get sloppy,, sorry I forgot to mention that before, I used those same robart hinges and they've help up just fine. I have no fear they'll ever pull out [/quote] Scale, I was right in my thinking then, thanks for confirming my thoughts on them... We have our club meeting tonight, I'm going to bring the pitts for show and tell.. Figure I will show them the plane now and then when i finish it.. Jimbo [/quote] Jimbo - a few years' back, maybe '08 or so, I did the PeakModels' Python 50cc...reading your build and seeing the pics reminded me that many of the same things existed on that plane. The cowling stuff, the too many screws, the short wing tube, the engine hub location....I'm thinking there must be a universal "mother" Pitts Python in China that everyone used for the 50cc versions....Mine was the solid black almost - and the silhouetting in sun was a big problem. Yours will be a lot more visible. Mine flew VERY well, was incredibly fast and agile, would snap like no tomorrow, stop on a dime, and FLOAT by at high speed on approach. We thought it would slow up, but it was plenty fast, and really very nice. I'm sure that yours will work out great!!!!!!
Posted on: 4/4/2012 3:32 PM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "ARF or RTF"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11028445

RE: Goldwing 50cc Pitts Python V3.
[quote]ORIGINAL: Mustangman40 I know most of you reading this will call me crazy for what I am about to say, but this is how i feel.. I still like this plane!!!! I will work through the problems and have a blast flying the crap out of it... I spoke to GMP about the cowl and the canopy and he is working on getting me replacements, I know he just sells them, but is making sure i am happy with it, very good CS in my book and I won't hesitate to do business with him again in the future... I have some plans to really dress this plane up and make it my own, I hope you all will follow along with your knowledge and opinions... Jimbo [/quote] Jimbo - I read this thread, because I am just now finishing a Goldwing 30cc Yak 55M. There have been what I would call "normal" and "minor" ARF-issues with mine, but not anything to write letter about. Purchased from TBM. Quality of covering and paint is 10+, IMO, parts fit VERY good, alignments right on the money (normal stab tweaking to match wings). Hinge blocks at every hinge point drilled, but, alas, EVERY one of them was not on center of hinge line, so replaced all with Radio SOuth Pro Hinges (flat CA type) since mine is e-power. I know the 30cc lineup is later in their experience, and I think the Pitts you have was when they were learning. I'm glad you're keeping it after all the work - my bet is that it will fly very nicely and reward you for the efforts. I'm not chiming in to debate or derail your thread - I just wanted to point out what I've found with their 30cc bird.
Posted on: 4/4/2012 12:45 PM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "ARF or RTF"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11028255

RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System
Nope. It's called "Block User", and it's at the bottom footer of every message. Of course, then you can't see it when the blocked person starts bashing you for doing it. But it can make a thread more "peaceful".
Posted on: 3/30/2012 8:27 AM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "RC Radios, Transmitters, Receivers, Servos, gyros"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11021089

RE: New Hitec Aurora 9-Channel 2.4Ghz Radio System
[quote]ORIGINAL: BuschBarber ZORasic Park must be a lonely place. [/quote] +200000 I am also amazed at AT's devotion and VOLUNTEER commitment to improving the knowledge base of the Aurora system. There sure ain't been anyone else to step up. Many of us share things here and there as we learn them, but he keeps the latest and greatest out there for all to see. A non-owner/product speculator really is in the category of "why bother?" Zor seems to enjoy agitating about something he has no ownership in - makes no sense at all to me. So everyone - just "Red Hand" the man.... problem solved!!!
Posted on: 3/30/2012 6:58 AM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "RC Radios, Transmitters, Receivers, Servos, gyros"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11020980

RE: Regulation passed the House
[quote]ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot [quote]because the NAS does **NOT** belong to us[/quote] Actually it does, it belongs to all citizens and we have given the regulatory power of protecting the NAS to the FAA. [/quote] Exactly. The FAA *will* "protect the NAS". Whether kites, missiles, RC airplanes, or birds - the FAA acts within it's vested authority under the auspices of "Safety". Stay below the "radar" (literally and figuratively) and they have shown little interest in our models for decades. Get "in their face (space)" and they will react as any bear will when poked from peaceful slumber. Apparently a few years back the sUAS got their attention as "commercial users of the NAS" and the rest is history. At least the AMA did "something" to make sure we stayed off their (FAA's) radar....unless we become "hazardous"
Posted on: 3/25/2012 1:00 PM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11014447

RE: Regulation passed the House
[quote]ORIGINAL: JohnShe [quote]ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy Silent, since you are so committed to the topic- hows about you tell us if you think the FAA Inspection that happened is an unlawful act by the law this thread is about? Yeah, lets talk about the law s336 that makes those inspections illegal, and in particular how that thread subject law makes them illegal. [/quote] s336b says: "Statutory Construction.Nothing in this section shall be construed to limit the authority of the Administrator to pursue enforcement action against persons operating model aircraft who endanger the safety of the national airspace system." Read it and weep. The FAA has the authority and responsibility observe, inspect, investigate and take appropriate action during any operation involving the use of the national Air Space. If the FAA inspectors observe any action that endangers the NAS, they may take immediate and appropriate action. [/quote] John She - - Yep - and you'd be right - I was wondering when someone would just put it out there....probably the reason the AMA is saying "wait and see" is because NOTHING in all of this *takes away authority from the Administrator* (and that means persons the Administrator delegates/assigns as he/she sees fit to oversee various aspects of the business of keeping the NAS "safe") I don't think, never have, that we have to "fear" the FAA.... we just must adapt to the rules, because the NAS does **NOT** belong to us, folks. Look up and research exactly the jurisdiction and scope of special TFR NOTAMs, and NOTAMs, in general. If "we" do stuff (any stuff) that "they" perceive as endangerment of the safety of the NAS, then we will all be in real pickle. Of course, this is only my opinion and worth only as much (or as little) as everyone else's on this thread.
Posted on: 3/24/2012 1:43 PM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11013269

RE: Regulation passed the House
[quote]ORIGINAL: K-Bob For those who don't care to read all 30 pages ....................... Summary: The house and senate passed the bill and the prez. signed it. Yay for us. Additional 29 pages of Blah, blah, blah. [/quote] Best post yet !!!! Some of this is pretty interesting reading, though, because it so well illustrates why non-English speaking persons have such a difficulty learning
Posted on: 3/13/2012 7:23 PM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10999126

RE: Regulation passed the House
double post
Posted on: 3/13/2012 7:02 PM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10999131

RE: Regulation passed the House
I have a question....if anyone knows....with this legislation passing the Senate and going to Obama for signature, how does any of this affect the "NPRM Cycle" for comments/change ????
Posted on: 2/7/2012 2:29 PM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10948539

Newbie to Gas General Information
[color=#FF0000][b]This thread is here as a FAQ or Starters Guide for newbies to gasoline powered engines. Please do not post regular chit-chat in this thread. It will be deleted. Consider this a READ ONLY thread.[/b] Thanks, Rcpilot 04-16-09[/color] There are so many threads with hundreds of the same questions and answers...maybe a few basic things in this thread would qualify as a "sticky" and RCU would help us who provide those answers to reduce duplications. So... as a "newbie" to Gas. Some things in general that you must keep in Mind and Learn About Doing. 1. All tank and plumbing accessories must be "gas" rated. Dubro brown color stoppers are the "standard". Yellow Tygon is widely used. Clear tubing is crap. All fittings need to be "secured" over their attachment barbs. All smooth brass tubing needs some kind of bump, solder blob, or barb to keep Tygon on, as it swells in use. BEFORE it gets rigid and brittle with age. NORMAL. 1a. Klunks and filters.....gotta have 'em someplace. Klunks in the tanks that are like the little Walbro "felt clunks" in your weedeater work REALLY well. So do more exotic ceramic particle filters. Gotta have a klunk. Gas should be filtered in the jug, too, before it gets INTO your airplane. And yes, tanks only need two lines.... vent to atmosphere and line to carb. You can use a tee with a fuel dot to fill and drain the tank. It will work forever. You also can use three lines, but that gets a little more complicated. Use filters. USE FILTERS. 1b. Pulse Lines - MANY gassers have a piece of tygon fuel line running from a fitting on the crankcase or intake adapter to an inlet pipe on one of the "sides" of the carb. This line is NOT for gas. It must not be kinked. It cannot have holes. If not hooked to the pulse line on the carb, the carb will not pump. Ever. When in doubt, call the manufacturer. Most of them ship their engines with the pulse lines already properly connected. Sometimes they even have manuals with pictures in them that MAY show this line and it's fittings. 2. Every engine with a Walbro or "clone" carb MUST HAVE it's Low and HIGH speed needles re-adjusted from factory settings to get GOOD performance. EVERY ENGINE!!! 2a. Walbro carbs (and other similar) have PUMPS. Rocking the prop back and forth or flipping it with fuel will PUMP the head full. Spark doesn't work under fluid. The tank can be a long way from the carb, and it's okay. As you rock the prop, watch the air bubble/fuel move up the line. If the bubble isn't moving....the pump isn't pumping. Get the pump wet inside somehow. Fact. 3. Breaking an engine in on the ground is generally not a real good idea. Use the manufacturer's recommended oil ratio for starters, get a couple tanks (or less) through the engine to make sure everything is okay, then go fly the damm thing so it will have SOME form of cooling air over it. 4. Spark plug cap fittings usually fit very tightly if they are the "push on" type, and you will have to push HARD. It's normal. If the plug cap isn't on correctly, it will not run right. EVER. And you'll get unreliable starting, running, and radio interference (all not-good things). 5. Prop drilling - if you have a jig, use it. If you don't, use the prop washer as a guide and try to get straight holes. ALWAYS balance a prop before using it. 6. Most carbs will require you to modify the throttle arm to be "user friendly" for our pushrod/ball link setups. Get over it. It's the way it is. Use a short servo arm to attach to the crappy little plate they supply on the throttle butterfly shaft. Use ball links and very rigid pushrod setups with GOOD servos. 7. Remove and toss the "stop screw" on the throttle arm plate, then unhook the little spring that pulls the butterfly closed, unless you want your throttle servo under constant load/tension. DO NOT REMOVE THE SPRING. 8. Electronic ignitions work wonderfully, if they are getting power. Use a reliable battery with the voltage rating and milliamp hour rating that the manufacturer recommends. WHY??? Because if you toast the ignition from incorrect battery usage - YOU WILL BUY THE REPLACEMENT. If they say nothing, go with a 4 cell 1100mah NiCad, or NimH, or a 5 cell system on a GOOD regulator. Not recommended for newbies. Get some experience with this area. Always use a switch, and setup throttle so you can kill it. [b]Generally speaking, there are "good" ignitions, and there are "cheap" ignitions, but not so much "Good and Cheap". Ya gets what ya pays for on this one!!!![/b] 8a. Ignitions all have three chunks of wire. ONE, the spark plug lead, also contains the "ground", and must make contact with the outside of the plug hex (where your socket wrench grabs the plug). It can't have holes, or cracks, and should always be prevented from rubbing on ANYTHING. TWO - "Power", usually a "female" battery-type connector with a red and black or red and white wire/connector. This is where the "OUT" of your switch provides power to the ignition. NEVER get the red and other color mixed up ever!!! THREE - the "sensor pickup" - usually a black/white/red (or similar) wire that connects to the thing that is mounted up near the prop hub (on most engines). This is the "hall switch", and picks up the rotation of the prop hub by sensing a magnet when it rotates past the face of this switch. ALL three wires have to connect, and the polarity of these three wires can never be wrong, either. The igniton senses the magnet rotating past the switch on the hub/crankcase to figure out when to send the spark to the plug. It only "knows" when the magnet has passed it. ALL of these work the same way. Rotating the hub magnet past the hall sensor/switch means that the IGNITION **WILL FIRE THE PLUG** if it has power. Many people with injured fingers thought an igniton was OFF when it wasn't and found out by casual flicking of a "hot" prop. The ED department visit usually costs more than an engine. AVOID this, always. Treat a gasser with an ignition attached as if it is HOT, 100% of the time. 9. In general, a new carb will not pump if it has been dry for awhile. Period. Get some gas into the thing by normal "priming", close the choke, flip through a few times, ignition on, throttle at high idle. Engine pops starts, dies, open choke, flip till starts. RESTRAIN you AIRPLANE while doing this. ALWAYS. 10. These gassers need GAS. Not some other kind of make-believe fuel. If yours has ethanol, it will be okay. 95% of our engines will do just fine on regular unleaded 87 octane pump stuff. They also have to have OIL. Nearly all of these need about 30 or 32:1 ratios for their first starts. That's 4 oz to a gallon. Easy to remember. Won't hurt the engine. Use a good oil for 2 strokes. If in doubt, call the ENGINE seller about ratios and types. If they don't answer, THEN post on here.
Posted on: 12/19/2011 3:37 AM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "Gas Engines"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8673009

RE: Tired Old Man and Jody
I made the sticky post at the top of the forum about Gas Engine info for Newbies; much of it from info I learned from TOM, Jody, BadAzzMaxx, Pe Reivers, and many others. I did that because I was growing tired myself of answering the same thing 34 times, and then having the accuracy of the reply questioned by those who didn't know which end of barrel the bullet comes out....so I just went away, and it's not even been noticed. I hope that's because I chose not to fight and just move along. BTW - I am really enjoying petroleum-free flying with my e-birds. Hope everyone is well here.....except those who were unkind.[:D]
Posted on: 12/2/2011 1:05 PM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "Gas Engines"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10840147

RE: Monolog 110
specs? span, length, wt ? Looks like a great alternative to 2M for me.... Keep us posted!
Posted on: 11/9/2011 5:37 PM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "Electric Pattern Aircraft"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10804872

RE: Whats wrong with this picture?
As of this writing - application/fee for Club Charter has been submitted to AMA. If approved, City leaders will decide what needs to be done to reopen the field for use. If not approved, it's anyone's guess as to what will happen. I'm hopeful the facility gets reopened. It would be a shame to remain closed or permanently abandoned. Remember, the "Site Owner" is the City of El Reno, period. And they have committees and departments that decide how areas at the Lake, and other public facilities are used, period. I think since they built the thing, it would seem logical that they would want to reopen it. I hope that the local El Reno vicinity field users posting here want to see the field re-opened. I know I sure do.
Posted on: 11/3/2011 7:54 AM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10794867

RE: Whats wrong with this picture?
[quote]ORIGINAL: G MAN All you guys want to sugar coat this all you want, it is still unsafe and you know it..... [/quote] G-Man - If the "site" is unsafe, why have you flown there with your brother and others for so many years? Why have I flown off the present runway location for 22 years? Let me answer - because the "SITE" is not "UNSAFE". But it sure as heck is possible that some "users" could make it an unsafe site in a heartbeat. This forum isn't a very good place for statistical analysis of risk mitigation due to equipment malfunctions, failures, or accidents. There's probably an insurance underwriter or risk manager/lawyer forum somewhere for that. Putting in a big runway sure makes it more of a challenge if there are not rules governing the use of the site and competence of the users. Are we trying to get the field re-opened, with some guidelines and rules to protect the City so they will permit it to BE USED, or are we trying to get it shut down permanently, and lose the flying site forever???? Which do you want?
Posted on: 11/3/2011 4:56 AM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10794648

RE: Whats wrong with this picture?
[quote]ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R Well, if the AMA is going to refuse to insure or sanction events or flying at the El Reno filed I suppose they should do the same at the Whittier Narrows field in California. It only has 50 more feet from the center to Highway 60, one of the busiest roads in the LA region. But then they would have to explain why they have sanctioned events and provided field insurance there for 30 or 40 years!! Whittier hosts IMAC, pattern, warbird, Quickie 500 races, and a number of other events each year. I have never heard of an incident there involving the freeway. http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=34.043547,-118.071216&spn=0.006035,0.007741&t=h&z=18&vpsrc=6 And then there is the Santa Fe Dam Modelers. http://g.co/maps/5knuk They are only 900 feet from center to Interstate 605 and only 780 feet from the new end of their runway to I-605. The old runway end, where they never had an issue, was only 400 feet from the freeway. Jim Giffen forced them to change their field about 6 months before he died in 2010. The club was very unhappy with him and his Safety Officer Mike Brown (who replaced him as DVP). THis club lead teh charge to vote in Larry Tougas when he ran against Mike Brown for this reason. So if Whittier Narrows and Santa Fe Dam are not issues, why is El Reno?? [/quote] THAT, Silent, is exactly the $50, 562 question. A shorter runway has been "good" for 20+ years. A longer runway, when designed, was apparently blessed to be "good". Then, after being built, an anonymous complaint to the AMA about a potential safety risk to Interstate 40 got the AMA to call the City dudes. That was when all hell broke loose, and now we can't fly at all at the very same physical "airspace" that was in continuous, and SAFE, use for over 20 years. My guess would be that the AMA didn't want the publicity the complaint would bring if they (the AMA) failed to take aggressive action. Your other points are exactly on target, too. "IF" our City isn't able to adopt a workable set of guidelines for it's attorneys' blessings, then what the AMA or anyone else thinks or says will be meaningless. There are appropriate actions, by appropriate persons, taking place to ensure usable guidelines are developed and provided. We'll just have to wait and see how all that flushes out.
Posted on: 10/13/2011 11:22 AM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10763421

RE: Whats wrong with this picture?
[quote]ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R It has been mentioned before, but keep in mind that the AMA "Guidelines" are nothing more than what the AMA suggests as the optimum field layout. There is no requirement for them to be followed nor have I ever heard of site owner insurance being with held for fields not laid out in accordance with those guidelines. From the document posted above: [quote]The suggested specifications are not mandatory requirements, and compliance with these suggestions does not, of course, guarantee that no accident will occur.[/quote] [/quote] Although you are correct, technically, it is a moot point in this situation. Since the complaint was lodged to the AMA, and AMA suggested to the site owners to close the site until "rules" are established, and the City's attorney has said "wait until rules are written into the statutes" whether the information is a guideline, suggestion, someone's good idea, or whatever - I have been told by the City officials that until "legal" signs off on statutes containing rules of operation that are deemed "appropriate", the fat lady ain't sung. And I am not making this up, I received that communication. The City Counsel is doing their job - advocating to prevent/reduce risk of litigation for the site owners. They don't really give a whipstitch about airplanes, gliders, or rc cars....part of the bigger issue now is creating guidelines that they will sign off on to protect against possible litigation against the City. Or, to put it another way - make the safety requirements of the field such that if something happens and the pilot/operator was conducting operations "outside of" those requirements/rules, then the PILOT/OPERATOR becomes the sole litgant defendant. That is what it is about NOW, sadly. Gee, that's EXACTLY how the CURRENT AMA insurance and Safety Code is written. Hmm. Perhaps ALL of this crap could have been avoided if people would have just READ the Safety Code and Insurance coverage clauses within AMA membership. The City already requires AMA to use the site anyway, and have since 1990.
Posted on: 10/13/2011 7:47 AM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10763051

RE: Whats wrong with this picture?
[quote]ORIGINAL: corch The unwritten rule is when you are quoted in a newspaper that you owe a round.:) [/quote] corch - I wish I could, having been quoted in the article posted above by G-Man. I thought deleting my posts would help reduce the "noise", but it didn't. Comments below are not directed at you - just piggy-backing on your post/thought. ______________________________________________________ Right now, it is ONLY important to me to safely utilize the facility that has been built using my city's money (some of mine in there, to be sure). It would be an unimaginable aberration of judgement to **NOT** figure out what will make it work - Safely. Whatever that looks like. Whatever it takes. I may be "old", but I am not stupid nor un-educated. So, I choose **NOW** to be a part of the SOLUTION, and not the PROBLEM (if allowed/permitted/asked to be involved. We grown-ups have to remind ourselves about the "gold standard". Those with the "gold" set the "standard(s)" (rules). Although perhaps "interesting", the history of how El Reno RC got to where we are today is irrelevant. There is NO ONE involved now, rc-ers or at the City administration level, that knows the specific details of how the place came to be in 1990 and before. Only me. Who was in what meeting, when, and said such and such to so and so has NO bearing on decisions that will be made soon which determine the FUTURE of my flying site. Sad, but fact. Yep, that's pretty important to me. So, yep, I'll do what I think needs doing to ensure I have some sort of voice. Hopefully, that means being part of getting an outstanding RC facility REOPENED.
Posted on: 10/12/2011 1:42 PM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10761953

RE: Whats wrong with this picture?
Gone4
Posted on: 10/5/2011 9:28 PM by Author "Bob Pastorello" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10749798