RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...
This is the last post I make to RCU. The people that manage RCU really pissed me off, good luck with your endeavors gentlement, I'm utterly outta here, will hook up next when I create a better forums "won't be asp driven" without all of the self rightous, holier then thou attitutde trying to hock cheap wares from the posters works.
Posted on: 5/18/2006 4:12 PM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "Foamies! - RC Electric Foam Aircraft"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4292209

RE: Goldberg Tiger 2 Build
I documented the entier build on another fourms, regretting it now "throw not your pearls to dogs and swine less they trample them under foot and turn on you". thown plenty of perls, all trampled them under foot at this point, you being new, take heed to this advice/ I found out after the build, it's a tiger 400, the original ARF was a mangled mess I bought cheap from the WWW, needless to say, I had zero to go from, so the only plane that showed up was a Tiger 2, this is in fact at one time a Tiger 400. I converted the wreck into a direct drive 480, with nothing to go off of, but it can be converted to .o49 gas for those that are into that end exclusively. The original power train I put in place needed help, so switched it out and revised it to for a free floating brushed geared 390, it wants to just jump out of your hands ad this point, wish me luck on the maiden of these revisions into the new plane I created from absolute sratch, no cad files, plans or anything else but the battered arf, in tact to take measurements.
Posted on: 5/18/2006 5:35 AM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "Kit Building"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4290684

RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...
Russel-RC, I'm sure fisher would be able to answer this best since he's actually flown the bird, but based upon how the design is layed out, I'd increase the wingspan, adding a nice dihedral, perhaps winglets to get it to conform better to glider specs. Along soldering tips, I never use the stock ones any more, not sure what's going on, but they just do not heat up correctly, instead I have simple 12 gauge bare copper wires in their place, makes for a much better system for soldering, or anything else for that matter and they don't burn out like the others. Glue gun is very much the way to go with foam construction, the glue is much stronger then the foam and alot faster, it's only draw back, it doesn't sand at all, so you gotta watch the overflow. I'll smooth mine out, similar to when you are caulking if it does overflow, just be sure you are done sanding the components before attaching them since the foam will sand away, leaving the hot glue section in tact, sticking out.
Posted on: 5/17/2006 8:25 PM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "Foamies! - RC Electric Foam Aircraft"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4289484

RE: Flying Robots!!!!
jettstarblue you are a funny man, hehe [:D][:D][:D] Flying robots here though, examine the topic, a robot can do many things, I think people are looking from the traditional RC aircraft making it do more when they should be thinking of attaching wings to the robot that can already do the many things. I have several ideas to meld the 2 tech's together plus more adding the xyz axis into the equasion. Ideas are from safety features, to being able to bail in the air. ie. death spiral and you can kick out a chute to recover it mid air as an example. I'd like to see more like these, there are options and concepts that are already out there, just never melded with a flying craft, it gets you thinking in a whole new way about this hobby.
Posted on: 5/17/2006 7:22 AM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "The Clubhouse"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4287069

RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...
Ken, why don't you populate your profile with a gallery and hanger so we can see what you have created or own, it would make a good reference for this good advice, I'll try the nail/wire instead of drilling, makes alot of sense. Gorrilla glue is good stuff as well, it is correct with what it sais on the bottle, "the strongest glue in the world".
Posted on: 5/17/2006 4:26 AM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "Foamies! - RC Electric Foam Aircraft"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4286908

RE: Flying Robots!!!!
You have to understand, my point of view is more about human/animal welfare then political agenda's. Yeah, I hear the Japanese dilima upon quite a bit more then one occassion through mainstream media, not just CNN, their culture is absoluty different then the US when it comes to corporate loyalty, the company takes precedence over the family and attempts to become the family itself, there is huge competition going on and of course, if you look at history, there are many major US players that died of exaustion, particularly during the industrial revolution, it's not good regardless since there has to always be the human equasion about the final solution, ie. those young men could serve the company better alive rather then having to retrain a new worker if you are thinking cold corporate mentality. The value of the individual human existance and respect thereof is at stake in that case, not just one country, but world wide when it is all said and done, the same scenereo with animal welfare. Up until I hooked up with my girlfriend, might as well be wife at this point, I never gave a second thought as to the centiunt nature of animals themselves, they are limited, but do have real emotions and can learn just as humans, .... Needless to say, her small zoo has taught me alot about that end and I've grown attached to a few in the past myself. I gauge my purchases and try to do my best in the business world, thinking for the welfare of the common, lowest on the rung laborer equally as well as economics. Where I hate myself with is when economics dictate I have no choice but to go with the lowest/cheapest denominator, not knowing what happend to take raw material to market which is usually at someone elses expense big time, at the same time, don't mind sacrifices such as never frequenting KFC again, for example, "I know not huge sacrifice there" but it's about principals, values and actually having the integrity to act upon them regarldess of where the buck stands and the status quo when given a choice. I look forward to seeing the bender robot fly on another note :)
Posted on: 5/17/2006 3:40 AM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "The Clubhouse"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4286867

RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...
drilling wires and inserting smaller ones and sending back to Japan, hehe. Good job critterhunter, looks like it's going to be able to take a beating, what's the weight difference with the add ons? I have a Kodak CRX digital camera laying around, let me know if you want it cheap, it's not the best, but beats a kids camera. Builds like this gain momentum the more progress you make, in the end, you end up being obsessive over it all and go overboard putting in the hours to complete. It's nice seeing you are doing a different spin on this, making it a tank, well beyond what most foam based creations are. Going brushless, I'm sure can handle it, I'm still in the dinasour brushed set up, but would rather the plane gain it's own merit through the design over the power source. When you are uploading photo's, be sure you are saving what you have to the same folder on your hard drive, it takes forever to do it from your cam or memory card. This way when the browse menu shows up, you can select from the same folder each time, you are going to populate that form, that's what the extra fields are for, with all of your uploads, it will then do it at once. Let me know if you need a screen capture photo to elaborate further.
Posted on: 5/17/2006 1:33 AM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "Foamies! - RC Electric Foam Aircraft"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4286704

RE: Goldberg Tiger 2 Build
Good job guys, I know this is an old thread, so keeping it short, here is a photo of my Tiger 2 I built free hand from scratch, I had the original on my bench to take some measurments from, but as you can see, it's a whole new bird.
Posted on: 5/16/2006 10:22 PM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "Kit Building"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4285996

RE: Flying Robots!!!!
It's just an obvious observation, and seems like a logical solution to me. Won't expand upon the religion element, it's not supposed to be discussed in the forums for obvious reasons and you will take note, I did not point fingers at any one religion, I personally think they are all screwed, you do not need someone to interpret the meaning of God for you, it's a personal thing that should only be dealt with along an individual level, not amassed into one page all have to read and follow, but do not take this the wrong way, ie. man has a tendacy to obscure the truth, bending it for his own justification for doing the things he does no matter how immoral. On the opposite side of the coin, a society of athiests is NOT the way to go, you gotta believe in something, otherwise you are little more then the animals by nature. To change the subject, I saw a CNN special where the Chinese fur/leather trade takes stray animals, dogs, cats mostly, cage them up into crowded cages for transport, tossing them into "causing much damage and suffering to the animals with how they are handled" and then skin them alive for their fur and leather. I stopped buying leather coats at that point. You are in Hong Kong, tell me if you have observed these factories, or are you even aware they exist? The videos were utterly disturbing, I'll never buy a leather coat again since imports for these are not 100% regulated........ Also, what about the coal miner trade, again, CNN, the fatality rates for Chinese coal miners is profoundly higher then the U.S. and other developed countries, yet they continue regardless, won't even go into it when you hear stories about in Japan where young men in the late 20's and early 30's dying of heart attacks because of the fact they are severely overworked. Just trends I, and I'm sure everybody state side do not want to see expanded into the U.S., yeah, we got KFC, "don't eat at KFC any more after finding out about that whole shebang" and other bad things going on, but not to those extreems, there is alot more regulation, from employers and the rest that are in place here...
Posted on: 5/16/2006 1:03 PM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "The Clubhouse"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4284359

RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...
My screen name is Espresso Outfitters, that also happens to be my company name, you see, I build $40k kiosks, $10k espresso carts and supply, rebuild and overhaul all of the equipment, I work not only in wood, I do so in a very advanced way the likes of which most "wood workers" cannot handle, I also work in plexi, various laminates, electrical and plumbing systems, again, beyond
Posted on: 5/16/2006 12:33 PM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "Foamies! - RC Electric Foam Aircraft"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4284258

RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...
Not replying or editing my own post, but should toss this on the table as a new twist on the original bird. I have a Fun Flyer, mentioned before, will take it out for it's last spin when I get time, I'm going to tear it down to it's basic components and create another based upon the current design this topic is about. I like the bird, but I'd like more accuracy on it since it has now been battered and wasn't exactly straight and COG was way off since the receiver wire is 3 times longer then the plane itself. The wires are just over the size of a human hair, so will take a very gentle touch, but the idea here is to make one of much smaller scale as the original using this mini flyer for the RC end. I like the plane, and have had alot of fun with it, flying in micro RC land, so might as well integrate it into this one since it's a simple design to work with, "makes it easier to handle on the micro scale". Not even sure if I should bother pulling out the foam cutter on this one sicne the wings will be flat stock given a bend for the aerfoil, but will make a nice, end of day diversion without having to commit larger efforts upon compared to regular RC builds.
Posted on: 5/16/2006 4:36 AM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "Foamies! - RC Electric Foam Aircraft"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4283296

RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...
A t or an L will work even better, you need to keep in mind, you are adding more weight, both from the epoxy and the extra material. I use 1" by 2" aluminum tubing and U channel in what is built into the carts to give you another idea.
Posted on: 5/15/2006 7:09 PM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "Foamies! - RC Electric Foam Aircraft"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4281591

RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...
The Carbon tubes will be stronger then the flat carbon stock, if you go with the flat carbon stock, sticking them on end, ie. short side facing up and down, you will get more rigidy, this is exactly the same thing I do when I build base frames for the carts I build, also don't forget, balsa is alot lighter, so may be an option in that area since carbon fiber is rather heavy. The trick to mounting anything to foam, you are going for surface area, the more you can get to contact with what you are putting in, and to each other, the better. I like your idea on the revisions, I think I'll incorporate that into mine, as well as mount removable mounting trays for the servo's so I can install and remove them closer to traditional construction. 5 days and no work, I long for those days, would be an airplane building fanatic, it's sunny and hot here, so looks like another California style Wa. summer.,
Posted on: 5/15/2006 5:46 PM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "Foamies! - RC Electric Foam Aircraft"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4281237

RE: Flying Robots!!!!
eliminate all virgins???????? If you haven't tried to video cam your plane while flying it, you should give it a shot, it's very difficult to do, it's like looking through a straw, trenches were not always around, but as I recall, they may have tried the periscope system, I think another reason they did not keep going that direction is due to the high level of malfunction.
Posted on: 5/15/2006 12:15 PM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "The Clubhouse"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4280234

RE: My Micro Review Of Multiplex Micro Jet
link crashed my media player, you need to form a proper link, the spaces are auto filled in by windows, that's why you don't want to name files with spaces in them.
Posted on: 5/15/2006 7:55 AM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "Electric RC Jets"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4279497

RE: My Micro Review Of Multiplex Micro Jet
Mine is already stripped out sitting in the rafters, I could never get it to fly without adding some oversized canards, I've heard alot of people could never get it to lauch. I'd love to be able to interface with my receiver via. computer keyboard, it's so much easier to control the sims and games that way since it's alot easier to allocate a button for each action, I hate console games for that reason, it's cumbersom. Guts in mine are in my Tiger, esc fried when I hit it with too hot of a battery, motor is a dead unit since I nosed it into the ground after I changed it into a tractor, ie. placed the motor on the nose and hit the battery back. So have run the gambit with this one without proper success.
Posted on: 5/15/2006 7:40 AM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "Electric RC Jets"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4279481

RE: My Micro Review Of Multiplex Micro Jet
Hard to type while drooling on the keyboard [:D]
Posted on: 5/15/2006 7:21 AM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "Electric RC Jets"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4279448

RE: My Micro Review Of Multiplex Micro Jet
Can you slow that animation down a tad "greatly" bit so I don't get dizzy, hehe. Expensive for any form of new start up, too bad those types of features can't be done in a cheaper one with different freq.. I'll rough it for now.
Posted on: 5/15/2006 6:41 AM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "Electric RC Jets"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4279402

RE: My Micro Review Of Multiplex Micro Jet
Sounds like a killer TX, what make and brand is it? Do you reccomend any that will do the same along the inexpensive lines if it's expensive, I have a futaba 4y, will outgrow it very soon, looking to upgrade to something that has a brain like that, sounds like an awesome way to go!!!
Posted on: 5/15/2006 6:14 AM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "Electric RC Jets"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4279383

RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...
sleeved control rods are going to be the best route to go since it's designed to reduce friction. Along mounting servo's and rods on anything new, start with the placement of the control horns, hold them in place lightly, and place your wire next to them, pointing towards the general area you are going to be carving out a spot for the servo's. I found doing it the other way around to be counter productive, that's where you have to start making those crazy "s" bends to make up for it. The less of a bend, or curve within the wires the better since they will have a tendacy to buckle unless positioned in an exact straight line. The tricky part on the exit ports for the wires in the fuse is drilling the proper angle, even a degree or 2 will change it's overall final placement when it comes to mounting the servo's since the distance to it will increase and follow the final angle. That and making sure your control surfaces are not going to bump into the rest of the plane when you try to move them with the controls. I personally do not look at sevo's as being that big of a deal since their weight is minimal, so if it's forward or aft on the wing a bit, it's not going to affect flight, just the closer you get to the aerlon, the less play and of course, you'll want to use the piano wire for those to make it simple. I reference this last build as well as the other foam creations in regards to the weight issue. Along painting and spackling, since this is the first one, it actually should be done so you can get practice, this way if you make mistakes, or it doesn't come out as planned, you can blame it on the fact that you are learning and this is the first one, so doesn't have to be perfect.
Posted on: 5/14/2006 5:36 PM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "Foamies! - RC Electric Foam Aircraft"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4277620

RE: Flying Robots!!!!
good data you are posting grampaw, glad you are keeping up with the times. It's illegal to fly out of visual range per common codes, so watch out if you are doing that kids. Fly by wire verses radio means there is no interference in the wire, radio has plenty, I was shutting down for the eve tonight, frequency 42, radio on, just getting ready to yank the battery to the plane and all of a sudden it started to flutter the rudder and elevator, turn it's motor on, all on and off. Shows you how vulnerable this stuff is if you want to use the tech with explosives, would hate to have to wonder if you are going to be blown up well before you get to the target ................
Posted on: 5/14/2006 6:33 AM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "The Clubhouse"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4275885

RE: My Micro Review Of Multiplex Micro Jet
I saw a vid where the guy just let it fly out of his hands, no launch at all, that's the power system I want for it :)
Posted on: 5/14/2006 5:28 AM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "Electric RC Jets"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4275831

RE: Scratch Built Cub
I refrain from Honest and factual criticism being pointed out with this bird, I have a ton I can put on the plate in that area, part is from the final product, part is from the actual seller. The idea of this, and all future, ARF to new builder area is not to duplicate the original, just to use it as a guide, or inspiration if you want to word it that way. This is all about improvements, there are cubs everywhere, I just was trying to express, this is not about directly copying somone elses work, I'd just take the whole thing apart with some debonder if I wasnted to do that, wouldn't be posting it publicly to some forum if that's the case. What I am doing is showing that it can be done, both by me and anybody out there to create a nice model that actually works, no need to call the mfg. you need a part, you are the mfg. I was going to town today out at the park, almost ripped the wings off of this one, I find it actually more enjoable building the plane at this point............ Let us build, both literally and figuratively. I know RCU has some very bright, original thinkers involved with it, this is the here and now and what is on the plate is a new cub, one that everybody will like, from the ground up and public involvement shapes it's nature of construction making all things optimal. In the end, I have to reinterate, this will not be remotely the same as the original, I just use it for basic dimensions, ie. power/battery and wingspan/fuse length, etc. Additional revisions planned to be in place, as the above poster stated, making it more true to scale, all of the rest is new and outside of the general profile of this bird should be ignored. I gotta be able to reproduce this with regular power and hand tools as well, not cncing or lazer cutting anything, it has to be strong, and I'm adding onto it with a spring loaded drive mounting shaft, so that if you nose it into the ground, it will not damage the bird. Also, will be adding more I care not to even discuss, will build and plan in for now, but release and integrate at a later date so stay tuned folks. Any and all comments, suggestions, etc. are welcomed, just work upon the common goal, we all want to be master of our domain, why not be master of your plane and "be" the builder rather then just the buyer.
Posted on: 5/14/2006 4:36 AM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4275796

RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...
Good job again upon getting it this far, you are looking for symmetry, so find the center of it all, mark it with a crayon or something you can remove easily and line everything up that way, now we just need the numbers from fisher for that value. Made the maiden flight today, it's underpowered since I modded it for durability over weight, so is slightly heavier, which is not a bad thing since wind is a regular here, so I should keep it in tact in that area to help handle it better, ie. it's harder for the wind to offset something of greater weight and poower. Overall, did mange to get it slightly off the ground regardless, I just have to revise the power train and use either geared or belt driven instead of direct drive..
Posted on: 5/14/2006 3:25 AM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "Foamies! - RC Electric Foam Aircraft"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4275716

Scratch Built Cub
I'm going to be building a cub from scratch based upon my current ARF. I have assembled the original, never flew it, then yanked the servo's back out of it knowing I can handle building another and would rather "unload" the original ARF since I no longer buy ARF's, Kits, or RTF's any more. Attached is a photo of it, I would prefer not to hear false feedback from the original mfg. or have some moderator butt in because they are worried about losing banner ad revenue, I am helping my client with the 3rd one of his line that arrived broken and defective, so there is nothing that can be said to defend poor craftsmenship and even worse customer service. I will be going into production on these after the first one is built, the reason I am building the first one from scratch, freehand is to get a better understanding as to what I need to design into it along the production model. [image]http://image.rcuniverse.com/gallery/photos/222969/lg-51268.jpg[/image] [image]http://www.discflight.com/image9ID.JPG[/image]
Posted on: 5/13/2006 2:24 PM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4273616

RE: Flying Robots!!!!
My IQ is higher then average, this does not mean I am perfect as spelling, nor am I a memorization freak, this does mean I can engineer to a degree that most people cannot, so can overcome obsticals never before realized............. If you want to defeat terrorism, jihad, etc. you need to defeat polygamy, what is happening is the fact they are sending their young men out to die so there is less competition for wives, they mask it in religion, but the bottom line is, it's a very convienent system they have in place, in the US, we have nut jobs doing the same thing, again, justifying it with their religion, but they simply excommunicate the young men. In ww2, they had RC rovers that carried munitions to the target, they were deemed impractical since the operator had to stick his head above the trench which in turn made him vulnerable so was phased out quickly, the same thing would happen with an RC plane if they were to use it as a weapon. The guys that are wanting to arm theirs, has been done before, they just want something more then just flying, you bored with the sim's yet? Same scenereo.
Posted on: 5/13/2006 1:43 PM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "The Clubhouse"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4273534

RE: Carl Goldberg Products
Hehe, I found this is typical with most manufacturers, they just want to unload their wares and could really care less about repeat biz. This is where all of them have totally lost me and why I now only build from scratch. Look forward, in the near future of having an American based manufacturer to rely upon that actually does have a clue about customer service and actually reads what is posted here at the RCU and other forums, this is just gold people. Attached is my own creation based upon a Goldberg design, not too bad for just a bit over a weeks worth of work, I didn't have any plans, just the original ARF assembled next to it in order to take some rough measurements.
Posted on: 5/13/2006 1:25 PM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "Product Announcements & Manufacturer News"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4273488

RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...
critterhunter very good job, now if you can scrape up the money for a decent camera...hehe. Your mindset completely changes once you start building from scratch, even more so once you realize you can build more, this is what scratch built is all about, you no longer are at the mercy of some manufacturer. Keep up the good work, I wish you well on your maiden, just finished mine, ready for it's first flight, hope weather allows me to do so today.
Posted on: 5/13/2006 1:18 PM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "Foamies! - RC Electric Foam Aircraft"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4273466

RE: My Micro Review Of Multiplex Micro Jet
To decipher what the above poster meant, it needs major power. plan upon spending an extra $100 min for that end and it will fly well.................. You all are losing us when you cannot post real, laymens terms words, those micro abbrieviations serve nobody but a very small nitch, spell it out, if typing is a hardship, take lessons, you are losing so many readers making this field into another AIM dialog going that direction....... That soapbox statement said, what if I buld a jet, similar to that one out of "real" materials, not foam based as the orignial, and designed it to handle a direct nose in, into the ground and can keep on flying. Would you pay more for it, and how much. I have the original multiplex jet collecting dust with it's stock set up stripped out in the rafters of my shop, it's packing material and bad memories of utter failure, 20 field days, only real flight I had, I had to add oversized canards..
Posted on: 5/12/2006 6:06 AM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "Electric RC Jets"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4269124

RE: Model in tree - retrieval anyone
Honor is not exclusive to the south, neither is dishonor, just a little hint here, think of a pannick button you can press that will let down a line and sinker as being one aspect and part of the equasion.
Posted on: 5/10/2006 5:08 PM by Author "Espresso-Outfitters" in the forum "RC Humor"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4263236