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The answers to a lot of your LI Po questions
I see the same questions posed over and over as in sveral current posts. Much of this information is addressed at www.fmadirect.com in the LI Po Expo http://www.fmadirect.com/tech_data/index.htm There used to be a sticky in this forum calling attention to that information but it seems to have disappeared. Lets hope we can help, Fred @fmadirect.com
Posted on: 2/5/2007 9:02 PM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=5376585
FMA Balance Pro Update for A123 Cells
The FMA Balance Pro charger reviewed in http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=450394 has been updated to add A123 charge capability. Specifications and features are linked at http://www.fmadirect.com/detail.htm...2044§ion=38 The A123 version is now in stock and shipping. This charger will allow full utilization ofthe high charge rate permitted by the A123 cells.
Posted on: 2/2/2007 12:38 AM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=5359157
Managing the A123 Cells
/item_1229.pdf __________________ Fred www.fmadirect.com
Posted on: 12/16/2006 1:37 PM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=5123191
RE: Ace Digipace 1 Question
[quote]ORIGINAL: Daryl Martel I've had an Ace Digipace 1 for many years and still use it regularly. Nice piece of equipment. It seems to me that what you're seeing is an indication that your battery isn't charging up properly. You should meter (measure the voltage of) the individual cells of the pack to determine if you have a bad cell. I've had this same indication a few times and every time it was a bad cell in the pack. This is the beauty of a cycler - they really give you a good indication of battery health. I particularly like the fact it gives a discharge readout in minutes. I feel very comfortable when I see nice long discharges as I know I can safely fly a few flights without worry. I bring a fast field charger along to the field and always top up after two or three flights. I also use an ESV between/after flights. I think this is just about as much as you can reasonably be expected to do to ensure that your battery retains enough charge to fly safely. [/quote] It always pleases me to know that modelers still enjoy use of products Tim and I designed over the past 35 years. The original Digipace I was the first solid state cycler for Ni Cds and had an LED readout. Digipace II was the next generation and added an LCD display. After ACE was out of existence, we introduced the third generation under FMA as Einstein. All-told, over 150,000 of the three units went into the field. I wonder how many are still in use today? I have taken a lot of gentle ribbing from son Tim, who enjoys telling that archaeologists keep finding Silver Seven receivers in archaeological digs!
Posted on: 12/12/2006 9:57 PM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=5109104
FMA Adapters Now Cover the Field
http://www.fmadirect.com/new_applications/comingsoon/index.htm Now truly plug and play with no need to splice or solder! With the addition of three new adapters to the Polyquest and Thunderpower adapters that have been available, FMA CellPro and Balance Pro can now be used to charge 95% of the packs in the field. The other 5% can be charged by adding the CellPro pigtail to any Li Po pack to permit all packs in the field to be charged with CellPro or Balance Pro. These new adapters interconnect between any 2s to 4s Apogee, Great Planes ElectriFly/Horizon E-flite or Tanic battery pack and our Cellpro 4s LiPo Balancing Charger for up to 4 cells at 3 amps with unprecedented safety! With the addition of a Balance Pro to CellPro adapter, all can be used with Balance Pro. http://www.fmadirect.com/detail.htm?item=2044§ion=38 FMA chargers are not sensitive to charge cable length so an extension can give you plenty of reach. http://www.fmadirect.com/detail.htm?item=2185§ion=45
Posted on: 12/4/2006 8:10 PM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=5075891
RE: Thunder Power Pro Lite problem
, Fred
Posted on: 11/14/2006 9:18 AM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4994333
RE: Balance charger Vs. seperate balancer
Please have a look at http://www.fmadirect.com/Detail.htm?item=2116§ion=45 to see that the active , microprocessor controlled CellPro charger does very much more than any external balance circuit including some 14 safety checks continuously. The external balancers use a zener diode / resistor to drain down current as a cell goes over 4.2V and is not nearly as accurate so you can not have fast charge with the external balancers.
Posted on: 11/10/2006 10:03 AM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4978564
RE: Balance charger Vs. seperate balancer
[quote]ORIGINAL: Xtremespeed Are there any benefits to a balancing charger over a charger using a seperate balancer? I have been looking at a few different chargers, and this may help make up my mind. Thanks [/quote] You do away with a lot of extra wiring and connectors so reliability is improved. BTW- The FMA CellPro can operate with an extension cable to allow you to separate the pack from the charger by several feet for charging in the plane, etc. Other chargers may not alllow that.
Posted on: 11/10/2006 12:01 AM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4977608
RE: Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger
The FMA adapters are compatible with some 92% of Li Po packs in the field per http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6327387&postcount=13 By using the CellPro pigtails, you can achieve 100% compatibility. It is not posible to tell from the photo that the plastic body of the connector you show will mate with the cellPro. However, we are seeing many sugggestions either to cut the tap lead (one at a time, please) and splice a CellPro tap connector http://www.fmadirect.com/detail.htm?item=2121§ion=45 or slip out the pins from the tap connector on your pack , do likewise on the FMA pigtail, and then slip the pins from your tap cable into the cellPro connector body. http://www.fmadirect.com/support_docs/item_1214.pdf
Posted on: 11/7/2006 1:12 PM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4966233
RE: FMA is OUT of the LI-PO Biz????
[quote]ORIGINAL: GeneG ----- In the message on your website you mentioned that there are pigtails for other packs. ----- The pigtails have the CellPro connector to mate with CellPro and the other end is the cable end to splice or solder to any pack. This allows 100% compatibility. The adapters allow use with unmodified packs for 92% of packs in the field just by plugging in the oEM cannector. An adapter for Apogee is nearing readiness.
Posted on: 11/4/2006 12:19 AM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4953112
FMA Products now available at factory-direct prices
This is an important announcement from FMA Direct. www.fmadirect.com All FMA products are now available factory direct only at factory-direct prices. http://www.fmadirect.com/lipoMessage.htm
Posted on: 11/3/2006 4:44 PM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4951403
RE: FMA is OUT of the LI-PO Biz????
[quote]ORIGINAL: GeneG Just got a message from FMA about a back order I have on some Cell-Pro packs. The message said "After careful consideration FMA Direct will no longer sell Li-PO packs and that they would not be able to fill my back order." What does this mean for Cell Pro & Balance Pro Batteries and Chargers!?!?!? [/quote] THE ANSWER IS NO, FMA IS NOT OUT OF THE LI PO BUSINESS. FMA Li Po charging, control, and accessory products are available and poised to supply your needs for a long time. Please see: [size=2](http://www.fmadirect.com/lipoMessage.htm)[/size]
Posted on: 11/3/2006 4:40 PM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4951380
RE: Cellpro charging problems?
[quote]ORIGINAL: aconsola Yesterday I purchased an FMA cellpro 4s charger, the TP charge adapter, and a thunder power 910mah 3s pack for my blade cp. The charger seems to be behaving strangely. for the first charge when I set it at 1c it would charge at 1.1A. During that charge cycle if I set the rate to 1.4c, the charge rate dropped down to .5A . Today I charged the pack again. I started out at 1C default rate, and it was charging at .5A I let it go for 5 minutes or so and checked on it, and the charge rate was up to 2.5A! Re-setting the charge rate manually to 1.4c dropped the amperage back to .5A Is this normal? While set at "1c" the current varied from .5c to nearly 3c Shouldn't the current be constant throughout the charge cycle? The pack never seemed to get warm from the high charge rate. Thanks, -Anthony [/quote] Anthony: The manual describes all this. CellPro uses a microprocessor to make highly accurate measurement of the characteristics of each cell in your pack and then to adjust charge current to produce the optimum charge algorithm on a continual basis. This allows the pack to be charged as quickly as practical if you want and extends pack life significantly. If you do not want to charge the pack automatically, the provision is there for manual charge as you found.
Posted on: 10/25/2006 10:35 AM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4912872
RE: Cellpro Adapters and Pigtails - Coming Soon
[quote]ORIGINAL: Greg Covey Anthony, We will be releasing a series of new adapters at the end of this month (October). The new adapters are for the following packs listed below. We recently discovered that the E-flite packs use the same connector and wiring as the Great Planes ElectricFly Power Series. [ul] [*] Tanic [*] Apogee [*] Great Planes ElectriFly Power Series / E-flite [/ul] Regards. [/quote] With this additional set of adapters, the FMA chargers can handle over 90 % of the pack types available. Sadly, the other packs use about 10 different connectors. It is wise to stick with a pack type that interfaces with CellPro or Balance pro FM
Posted on: 10/14/2006 11:58 PM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4868959
RE: LiPo FAQ
lLots of info based on four years experience with LiPos in RC. http://www.fmadirect.com/tech_data/index.htm
Posted on: 9/1/2006 12:01 PM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4697297
RE: Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger
rump THe CP can now be used to set a pack for storage. Run the pack to cut-off using your ESC or theCellpro DPM so you know it is at some 3v/cell. Then put it on CP4S and keep an eye on the display. When the pack reaches 3.8V/cell, unplug it and place in storage. This is the beauty of having the digital display. While you are at it, check to see that cell voltages stay in balance when not tken to full charge to see if there are any incipient cell failure issues. The diagnostics that can be done with CellPro are fantastic.
Posted on: 8/31/2006 12:41 PM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4693657
RE: Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger
[quote]ORIGINAL: s3tbolt Looks like FMA has stopped updating this area. I believe they are in transition with battery line from Kokam to in-house product. I do know the storage charge rate for a Lipo should be 40%. I typically look at the maximum charge of a 3cell, about 12.6 and low cut off 9, then split the difference at about 10.6 volts. Don't know how accurate this is, but bottomline is you don't want to store full charged or at complete discharge level. Best of luck. [/quote] Not really! FMA CellPro/BalancePro packs are availbale in stock. Li Po cells should be stored at 50% charge which is 3.81V /cell. During production, all cells are charged/discharged 2 1/2 cycles to arrive at 50% charge for shipment. See Page 18 of Ref http://www.fmadirect.com/support_docs/item_1197.pdf to see how to use Gas Gauging available as part of the FMA CellPro chargers to verify storage capacity.
Posted on: 7/14/2006 4:25 PM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4501948
RE: FS8 not compatible with JR Radio?
Johndale, It is like performing an appendectomy in the dark to try to troubleshoot systemic problems via a forum. Please call our service line on Monday. Punch X 3 and ask Elena to locate Nathan or Howie for you so he can walk through your problem. It sounds like your transmitter may be off frequrency enough to be near the edge of receiver bandpass. When you call, have all the info you can ready. It helps to write it down. Then take notes as you discuss the problem so you have a check list to go over what Nathan tells you. Have the system operative and the manual right with you when you call. A tentative checklist is: 1) How old is the transmitter. (However, we find new transmitters off by as much as 1500 hz on more occasions than we like) 2) When you see a change with temp, that may mean the crysyal at either end is drifting with temperature. 3) have you ever had transmitter frequency checked? One should have that done each 2 years as crystals do age. The thing I can tell you for sure is that Co-Pilot and FS8 have years of operaing time in heli photo missions and whatever is going on is systemic and must be trouble-shot using a systematic approach. Like going to a Dr, hew ill look for symptoms and ask you to take the steps needed to sort it out.
Posted on: 6/11/2006 12:00 AM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4376810
RE: MRC Super Brain 977 pro good for Li-Po?
u dud: When charging Li Pos, if a cell is subjected to over voltage, i.e., above 4.2V/cell the cell will be damaged unless that voltage is precisely controlled as it is in FMA chargers. If the charge voltage is controlled at exactly4.2V/cell, then the current will decrease asymptotically as the cell approaches 4.2V. Even the smallest of trickle charge will imply over voltage as it means the charge voltage has to exceed 4.2V when the cell is "full". We suspect that your charger implies something that really isn't taking place; but then we did not design that charger so the designer will need to explain to you what he is saying.
Posted on: 5/29/2006 3:47 PM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4328670
RE: GAS GAUGING LI Po Packs
[quote]ORIGINAL: klhoard Fred, Are there different charts for different cell capacities? I'm using a 2-cell 1250Mah pack for my pattern plane radio and don't have access to the CellPro pigtail. However, I can measure the cell voltage with a Radio South DVM that places either a 0, 500, 1000, or 1500 Mah load on the pack. I have two packs and would like to know at what voltage I need
Posted on: 5/22/2006 9:59 AM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4304248
RE: Charging with Lipo-502 charger
[quote]ORIGINAL: SigMan my thunder power 425 charger dosent have a mah setting, it has a .05 amp, 1.0 amp and so on, kinda newbie to electrics. [/quote] Use 0.710 or next highest. fred@fmadirect.com
Posted on: 5/21/2006 11:21 PM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4303202
RE: Charging with Lipo-502 charger
The next highest selectable current over 710 mA.
Posted on: 5/20/2006 10:24 PM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4299678
RE: Low voltage on polyRC li-po 3cell
[quote]ORIGINAL: rapghsi ok i can see that the battey have 8.35V. its means that the battry is not dead i hope! [/quote] Yes, the pack has 2.78 V/cell across all cells. Now, if you can access the terminals of the individual cells, see if all three have about 2.7 volts each. If they do, then the pack can be recovered but life will be shortened an unknown amount. Your charger was protecting you as it saw a pack that should nopt be charged until it is put through the recovery procedure. That procedure is to charge the pack or the individual cells at very low (< 100 mA) current until the open cell voltage reaches at lest 3.3V. Then you can try it on the regular charger.
Posted on: 5/20/2006 2:40 PM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4298573
RE: Low voltage on polyRC li-po 3cell
The battery has been taken to too low a cut-off voltage. The pack must not be discharged below an absolute minimum of 7.5 V under load. Use a DVM to check the voltage of the pack as it now sits. If the voltage is less than 9.6V with no load (e.g., < 8.1V) , you have damaged the pack. If you are so fortunate to have an FMA CellPro or Balance Pro charger, you can put it through the "Recovery" mode and it will first give the pack a charge at very low current until the pack comes back up to a bit over 3 V/cell, then give it full charge. You can learn moew about this at http://www.fmadirect.com/support_docs/item_1215.pdf If you do not have at least a voltmeter, your batteries will be nearly impossible to maintain. It's a bit like not having a working gauge for your car. How many remember the days of the early VW "Beetle" that had a small reserve tank instead of a gas gauge? You drove until the main tank emptied, then switched to the reserve tank. If you forgot to fill up before the reserve tank ran out; tough boogies! I had a math geniuos who worked for me in the 1970s. He was driving through NC when he ran out the tank, Switched to the reserve. Drove until he ran it dry. Walked to a filling station to buy a can of gas. Put in the gas and drove up the road until he ran out again! Amazing thing, really, is that he told me about this!
Posted on: 5/20/2006 11:56 AM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4298188
RE: how to use duratrax ice charger?
[quote]ORIGINAL: snowb0l Oops..... Administrator please close this thread. sorry i post in the wrong place. I will re post in battery and charger instead. Thanks [/quote] Snowb01 It's OK. I hope this will help. Learning a manual is very difficult and inefficient if one just reads the manual You have to work the equipment really to learn. I am not a computer geek so anything with an LCD display and menus, etc, is not my bag. Nathan does all that stuff and Tim and Eric are real whizzes at it. Our Supernova is an excellent charger, one of the most poular ever put out. But the controls and display just baaffled old guys like me. I could have read that manual for a year and not understood it. My darned cell phone is the same. However, I have learned the trick and it works. You have to have the device actually hooked up and working. Start at the beginning of the manual and confirm everything as you go, step by step. Don't skip a step. Write it down yourself as you go. I ended up with a short cut guide to Supernova that anyone could follow provided he could read and I included a flow diagram. You may want to make yourself a flow diagram for that ICE. If you can make it short enough, tack it in your field box because, trust me, you will forget if you do not exercise a function for a week or two. Good luck,
Posted on: 5/9/2006 12:03 PM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4258039
RE: Fortress 8 CH FM RX Shift Change
[quote]ORIGINAL: Erich_F Thanks for the doc, but it refers to a Quick Reference Sheet that actually has the switch positions. The thing you sent me to doesn't show switch positions, only talks about it. Thanks, Erich [/quote] http://www.fmadirect.com/support_docs/item_1054.pdf is two down the list from the 103 manual.
Posted on: 5/8/2006 5:21 PM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4254987
RE: Fortress 8 CH FM RX Shift Change
Download a new manual. It tells you how to set them. http://www.fmadirect.com/support_docs/item_1057.pdf
Posted on: 5/8/2006 1:35 PM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4254228
RE: FMA Li Po Pack Life of 452 Cycles at Heavy RC Discharge Rates
Life cycle for the two packs shown is a characteristic of the pack and the temperature. Basic Li Po chemistry as orginallly developed by Lawrence Livermore lab has an upper limit for permanent damage and short life at about 175 Deg F. If the cell is loaded in such a way that temperature never exceeds 140 F, life will be the maximum. However, other things come into play such a handling the cell many times to unplug and plug in, vibration , shock, rough handling, how fast you charge it, and how cold you let it get as you run or store. If you handled the cell ideally as for the test data shown, then some 400 to 500 cycles is practical as a max. We have run some gen 1 packs up to > 800 cycles under lighter loading. If you can, charge between runs and do not run the pack to cut-off, that will extend life as well. Good luck,
Posted on: 5/7/2006 12:15 AM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4248763
RE: FS8 not compatible with JR Radio?
Keith: The Futaba 9ZAP is a very small part of the market. We get issues such as being asked to broaden the receiver to work with transmitters that are off frequency. Such changes compromise the very effort put into FMA designs to provide superior performance. It is best to have your transmitter serviced so you can take advantage of the narrow band capability. We have had a number of requests to make receivers work with servos that have sub standard performance going back ten years. Such matters are considered and the user is alerted if there is a problem of compatibility.
Posted on: 5/2/2006 10:32 PM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4234198
RE: FS8 not compatible with JR Radio?
Only the Futaba has a problem because it has a non-standard modulation form. Do you think that might be so that you can't use replacement receivers with that synthesizer and have to pay a premium for Futaba receiver? Have you considered asking Futaba to mod their transmitter to generate the standard FM/FSK format same as everyone else? BTW- do not use other synthesized modules ina Futaba as it will be off freq by about 1500 hz.
Posted on: 5/2/2006 4:19 PM by Author "Fred Marks"
in the forum "Batteries & Chargers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4232655
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