RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
SkidMan Thanks for the correction on the fuels. I meant to say Ethanol when referring to gasoline and instead wrote Methanol. I'm either too new to gas r/c engines or it's an age thing!
Posted on: 12/27/2011 5:50 PM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Gas Engines"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10878756

RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
FlatSpin Thanks for the great link to "clean gas" stations. There are a few listed that are not too far from me. Given a choice, I will use regular gas without any methonal added in my DLE 20cc.
Posted on: 12/23/2011 1:07 PM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Gas Engines"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10873309

RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
Tmaucher is right about ethanol in gasoline. Ethanol causes delamination of rubber, plastics, synthetic hoses, etc. It is also a strong solvent and as it breaks down varous organic materials they go in to solution. Some of these dissolved materials tend to settle out and form various gummy materials. So, in any fuel tank, engine system like in a DLE 20cc engine in a model plane, fuel containing ethanol will attack the rubber, plastic and synthetic components over time. Because ethanol is very hygroscopic, (holds water), it is also thought to form acetic acid as a reaction product, which causes metal corrosion. I worked on these problems, as a chemist, when they first went to an E85 type fuel in a big way in Brazil and experienced huge problems. Despite my comments, I would not worry too much about our 10-15% ethanol containing gas. I would recommend that you inspect your carburetor rubber/synthetic components and hoses closely at least once a year.
Posted on: 12/23/2011 12:39 AM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Gas Engines"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10872536

RE: rx battery
jimmyjames213 Some of the guys seem to like a 6.0 volt pack, (receiver and/or ignition), because they are concerned about losing one cell in a 4 cell pack and having the resulting voltage drop below minimum operating requirments. If you lose one cell in 5 cell pack you still have ~ 4.8 volts. Smart? I don't know. I did lose a nice .60 size plane some years ago on it's second flight. It just quit responding to imputs. After the crash the only thing wrong other than one broken servo gear was I found one dead cell in my 4.8v NiCd battery pack. I'm assuming it was the battery failure as the servo was clearly due to impact damage. The battery was wrapped in heavy dense foam and still in it's compartment. ??? As for the 1 amp limit on the 1N4007 diode, you are correct that a major surge in current, (amps) could exceed the 1 amp. However, under normal operations we are talking current loads well under that to my understanding. A very complicated area of current measurement from what I have read on the subject. I guess the real answer to your caution is that if any servo or combination of servo's is pulling much over 1 amp for more that a very short period it's going to result in an on-board electronics failure somewhere, diodes or no diodes! Frankly speaking, it's hard to find real measured servo stall values. The manufactures tend to use "Peak stall torque values", which is when the shaft is prevented from turning. These values are reported to be 5-10 times higher than "Maximium continuous stall torque values". The latter being where the servo is at or near it's maximum torque due to high resistance, but still allowed to move a little at a very slow speed. Just what I've read, like you I'm not electronics expert. Thanks for your comments. Good food for thought.
Posted on: 6/14/2011 1:59 AM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Questions and Answers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10572903

RE: rx battery
Rodney You are technically correct, although I admit I am not expert in electronics. I did, however, read up on the Zenner diodes. It's why I decided to go with a couple of simple diodes to step the voltage down a bit. You know the old KISS approach- keep it simple stupid! When huck1199 mentioned the Zenner diode as a consideration, I acknoledged that it is an option, particullary since the current being regulated is fairly constant. I would hope each individual would either get some specific advice or do a little research before making any modifications to their battery packs. But, point taken. I got the idea for using a couple of specific diodes and a installation diagram to boot from a RCU post. Thanks,
Posted on: 6/13/2011 7:53 PM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Questions and Answers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10572531

RE: rx battery
jester_s1 I did not mean to imply that, I took your comments as arguing, but thanks for your response. You are correct that the nominal voltage of a A123 battery is basically the same as from a 6.0 volt NiCd or NiMH battery pack. Only the chemistry is different. And, A123 battery packs are highly recommended for Rx packs in RC airplanes. I guess, I'm personally, just a bit more concerned about going too much over 6.0 volts then most. So, if soldering in a couple of cheap diodes can keep the peak voltage nearer to 6.0 volts, I like the idea. A Zenner type diode like huck1199 mentioned or a 1805 fixed voltage diode for $1.79 at Radio Shack can be considered as while. Even though standard 6.0 volt battery packs have been used extensively there are a number of people on various RCU threads that have reported problems or preceived problelms when they went to fully charged 6.0v packs. No, I don't remember the specific names or post numbers, but the guys reporting this seemed serious enough to find various ways of reducing the peak voltage. I will admit that most of what was reported was not or could not necessarily be directly attributed to the higher voltage. One credible source from Valley Vier RC does rather strongly recommend not to use over 6.0 volts when using 6.0v batteries to power the iginition for DLE gas engines. I think the concern was shortening the life of the iginition module. To my understanding, the Chinese manufacture concers. Regards,
Posted on: 6/12/2011 8:41 PM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Questions and Answers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10570621

RE: rx battery
K-Bob exeter_acres jester_s1 Gray Beard scooterinvegas shayne1983 Wow! Apparently, my comments to a question on batteries by Dano garnered quite a response. I too like 6.0v battery packs and have used them for many years. Certainly the added servo speed and torque are a bonus. About 1-2 years ago I switched to the 6.0v NiMH 2000mah packs as I liked the greater capacity. No agruement there with most of your comments. I decided to venture in my first gas engine recently and so I have been reading and participating in the thread,"New DLE 20cc gasser!". Somewhat to my surprise, I found that a number of the experienced rc guys on this thread were very much for keeping the battery voltage down close to 6.0 volts. In large part due to concerns about gas engine igintion problems. You all can speed-read some of this thread if you want to read some of the specific comments. A few of the most recent start with Post #3768, but there is a lot of discussion going back to about page 35 or so of this thread. One of the key vendors in this discussion is Valley View RC, whom sell the DLE gas engines. I guess, bottom line, I just decided to start putting the diodes on my battery packs to keep the max voltage nearer to 6.0 volts just to be safe. I still get the extra speed and torque. For a buck and a few minutes soldering, how can you lose. I use a little electrial shrink wrap over the soldered diodes to protect the bare wire. BarracudaHockey's definition of a diode was correct. It only allows current to flow one way and simply steps down the voltage a bit. Use what ever voltage you are comfortable with. I'm just picking out the essence of a lot comments on this subject. I'm not so worried about the receiver as the servo's and ignition system. The servo is a added heat thing and the gas electronic iginition systems apparently are more sensitive to higher voltages according to the guys with a lot more experience with them then me. Enjoy your building and flying.
Posted on: 6/10/2011 9:10 PM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Questions and Answers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10567631

RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
elies12 From what I have read on the "New DLE 20cc gasser!" thread, most of the pilots say use a Syssa Ultra IBE, (ignition battery eliminator), with your LIFE battery. You can use just one battery this way and also reduce the voltage. You can purchase one at Valley View RC. Talk to jedijody on the DLE 20cc gasser thread. He's with Valley View RC.
Posted on: 6/10/2011 1:52 AM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Gas Engines"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10566107

RE: rx battery
Dano Sorry, use 1N4007 diodes. When I looked at the diagram I uploaded I realized that I made a mistake and called them 1N3007 diodes. Hay, it's late, what do expect from an old guy...
Posted on: 6/10/2011 1:25 AM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Questions and Answers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10566098

RE: rx battery
Dano A lot of the very experienced pilots and vendors suggest you put a couple of 1N3007 diodes on the positive battery lead to step down the voltage a bit on a 6.0v battery pack. A fully charged battery pack will be up near 7.0 volts, and this is known to have caused problems with receivers and ignition systems on gas engines. I have done this and checked it out under load with a expanded volt meter. The manufactures also state use only 4.8v -6.0v and they don't mean 6.9 volts. You might get away with it, but best to be safe. Solder the diodes end to end with the black bar code facing the device to be charged. Put them between the battery and the receiver on the (red) positive lead. I used a short servo extension so that I could just plug it in as needed. I will try to upload a diagram I got off this RCU site. Good luck.
Posted on: 6/10/2011 1:10 AM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Questions and Answers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10566092

RE: Ultracote Question
Gray Beard For a guy who does not have a clue as to what I need for advice, you gave me some great input! I really like the idea of soldering the servo extension wires. I had read somewhere else that most of the current loss with servo extensions in not in the wires but the connectors. I never thought of soldering them..and I will need about 18" of extension in each wing for the Chipmunk. On the covering, I like your technique of using an "iron" on the edges and keeping it hot and just above the surface. I have to try this. I've been bouncing back and forth between shrink with a heat gun and pull-back from the egde, since the film is just tacked as I work the Ultracote around a wingtip. I also noted your preference is not carbon fiber gears, (Karbonite), with Hitec. I share a similar concern, but I have noted that Hitec has a number of their High torque and expensive servo's using Karbonite gears. Do you really think metal gears is the only way to go with gas engines? How about the wear factor? You have a lot more actual experience with bigger planes and gas engines then me. The Chipmunk will be my first gas powered plane. I also use 6.0v airborne battery packs. I like the higher torque and the fact, that if you lose one cell you still have more then the minimum voltage to run things. Based on your comments,I think that I will use my HS-485HB servo's for the flaps. They produce ~ 83 in/oz of torque @ 6.0v. I will use my HS-645MG on all the other control surfaces except the throttle. Why are you thinking of using Two HS-6985 servo's on your rudder? Seems like an overkill, but I'm just asking to learn something. I understand the money thing. My better half takes care of the bills, so when I use the plastic for rc stuff, I get the 3rd degree! Anyway, thanks a bunch for taking all the time to give me such a detailed response and some really good ideas. Your Sukhoi 29 should be a nice plane. I looked at some of your eariler posts and pictures. You do some very nice work! Jon
Posted on: 6/8/2011 6:53 PM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Questions and Answers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10564081

RE: Ultracote Question
Gray Beard Good recommenditions. I always try to lay down the coating film as tightly as possible and tac down as I go along. The biggest problem I have with the Ultracote is working the coating around a curved edge like the wing tips, etc. The film is stiffer and does not seem to stretch as easily as Monokote even with using the heat gun as you go. And, as you know, it is around the curved edges that you seem to build up the most wrinkles! With Monokote I can just shrink them out with the heat gun. With Ultracote I pull the coating away from the edge as I try to shrink out the wrinkles. Maybe I need to use a wet cloth on the edge as I work the area near an edge. Aside from the coating issues maybe you can give me a few tips on setting up a larger ARF. I see you like giant scale planes. Up to date I have flown mainly .40-.90 size planes. My latest is the "Toledo Special" from Hanger 9. It has ~ 70" span, but only weighs in at about 6.25 lbs. I recentlly purchased a Canadian de Havilland Chipmunk with a 81" span and a weight of ~ 10.5-11 lbs. I plan to power it with a new DLE 20cc engine I also recently bought for this project. The DLE 20cc gives about 14 lbs of thrust with a 17x6 prop @ ~ 9000 rpm. My first question is; what size servo's to use? I have some Hitec HS-645MG and HS-485HB servos. They deliver about 107 oz/in and 66 oz/in of torque respectively. I am planning to use one servo per control surface. I will have ailerons and flaps on the wings. (4 servos). The plane has a wing area of 993 sq/in,so the wing loading is fairly light. I'm a scale flyer-rolls, loops, spins and inverted, etc. Any input on setting up this plane would be appreciated. Thanks,
Posted on: 6/7/2011 8:25 PM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Questions and Answers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10562477

RE: Ultracote Question
MinnFlyer Thanks for the input on Ultracote. You may well be correct that the thermal properties of the adhesive on Ultracote are uniquely different that with Monokote. This certainly would explain why some one used to Monokote would have a problem with applying Ultracote. Next opportunity, I will take care to direct the heat away from the seams and to cover the seams if necessary. Thanks again,
Posted on: 6/7/2011 3:33 PM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Questions and Answers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10561970

RE: futaba servo question.
Turqui The consensus seems to be using your, (I am assuming), Futaba S3004 servo will be o.k. with your Top Flite Gold Edition Cessna 182. I am not so sure that I agree. The Top Flite Gold Edition Cessna kit builds out to a 81" wingspan and weighs about 10-12 pounds. I am building a de Havilland Chipmunk with a 81" wingspan and it will weigh about 10-10.5 pounds. I had a similar concern as you regarding servo's for this plane. After much research, I am going with Hitec HS-645MG servo's for the ailerons, elevator, and rudder. I will use HS-485HB servo's for the flaps. I am using one servo for each control surface, eg., 2 for the ailerons, and 2 for the flaps. The Hitec HS-645MG servo's provide ~ 107oz/in at 4.8v. The HS-485HB servo's give ~ 66oz/in at 4.8v. The HS-645 has metal gears and the HS-485 have Karbonite gears. Check the size of your control surfaces on the Cessna and consider that you are going to be flying a 10-12 pound plane. At any speed, its the area x mass, (weight) coupled with the resistance, (angle of deflection), that equals the force on the servo. Your Futaba S3004 only produces about 44oz/in of torque at 4.8v. It's just my personal opinion, but that's not a lot of torque for even a big loop with a 10-12 pound plane. Most of the smaller .40 to .60 size planes are in the 5-8 pound range. I would suggest you at least consider the Futaba S3010 servo, which gives ~ 72oz/in of torque at 4.8v and the price won't break you. Good luck with your Cessna build. It's a beautiful plane.
Posted on: 6/6/2011 11:09 PM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Questions and Answers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10560802

RE: Ultracote Question
scigs30 I can relate to your first post regarding Ultracote. I have used Monokote for years with good results. I had my first experience with Ultracote when I got a Toledo Special ARF from Hanger 9 about 6 months ago. I used my heat gun to take up some rinkles on the horizontal stablizer and the Ultracote pulled back from the edges. Anyway, I stripped off the coating and put on some new Ultracote. It took me longer to coat the tail section then a whole plane with Monokote. Like you, I observed that the Ultracote seems to pull back from an edge much more easily then with Monokote. I even tried to go over the edges with my iron to insure the Ultracote was tightly sealed down. Still had problems. I should add, that I was very careful with my heat gun as I did not have any experience with the Ultracote. I had the heat gun air intake full open and stayed a fair distance back from the working surface. As an old research chemist, I am of the opinion that not only is the Ultracote temperature lower for Ultracote but that the adhesive does not give as good a bond. This is just my personal opinion based on my own observations. Another factor is, of course, that the Ultracote is thicker and stiffer then Monokote. I'd like to know how the heat plasticity compares between the two coating films. I like the properties of the Ultracote, but I sure prefer to work with Monokote. And, frankly speaking, if you do a good job with the Monokote, I think it gives just as nice a finish as the Ultracote. I guess it's a matter of personal preference.
Posted on: 6/6/2011 10:25 PM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Questions and Answers"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10560760

RE: What Aircraft are you installing your DLE20
codimasta I just bought and received the de Havilland Chipmunk 1.20, 81" on one of the rcuniverse listings. Really happy with the way it looks and the covering, etc. It should have an all up weight of right around 9.5 lbs, which sounds good for the DLE 20cc. Unfortunately, I won't be able to start the build until I finish a current project. Thanks again for your eariler input. Jonde
Posted on: 5/27/2011 11:05 PM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Gas Engines"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10544451

RE: What Aircraft are you installing your DLE20
codimasta Thanks for your comment. Did you buy your chipmunk from via the RCU offering?
Posted on: 5/18/2011 8:49 PM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Gas Engines"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10528653

RE: What Aircraft are you installing your DLE20
Has anyone considered the de Havilland chipmunk 1.20 4C ARF advertised on RCU for the DLE 20cc engine? It has a 81" wingspand and weighs ~9.5 lbs. Thanks, Jon
Posted on: 5/18/2011 8:31 PM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Gas Engines"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10528625

RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
RCVFR Thanks for the input. Based on your experience, how would you rarte the RCGF 26 to the DLE 20? Aside from the engine specifics, what did you think of the Chipmunk? Looking at some photo's it looks like it has a fairly thin wing thickness. Does the 81" wingspan compensate for this to some degree in slowing the plane down on approach for landing? Just curious. I certainly like the size and looks of the plane. Thanks again, Jon
Posted on: 5/14/2011 11:21 PM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Gas Engines"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10520611

RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)
I'm still trying to decide what plane to put my first DLE 20cc in. Currently, I am looking at the BP Hobbies 140 de Havillan Chipmunk. 81" span, 9.5 lbs. They recommend a .20-.26cc gasser. Has anyone had any experience with this plane? It sure sounds like a good fit for the DLE 20cc. Thanks, Jon
Posted on: 5/14/2011 6:24 PM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Gas Engines"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10520201

RE: What Aircraft are you installing your DLE20
cannonball200 Thanks for the info on your J-3 Cub. I noted your seats are black. They might contrast better with varnish on the floor. I'm looking froward to any photo's you can upload when you are ready. Jon
Posted on: 4/2/2011 6:33 PM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Gas Engines"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10439019

RE: What Aircraft are you installing your DLE20
Cannonball Beautiful J-3 Cub. I am currently covering a 1/4 scale Cub from Balsa USA with Monokote for a friend. Did you paint the side, lift-up door panel or did you cover it? Likewise, how about the vertical window frames and other "smaller" parts? Thanks, Jon
Posted on: 4/1/2011 8:34 PM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Gas Engines"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10437489

RE: What Aircraft are you installing your DLE20
Hi Michel Sorry about that!... I referred to the only spitfire kit that I saw on Topflte's webpage. I went back and just typed in Spitfire kit in the Google search engine and then got the Spitfire MK. IX I think you are building. (63" wingspan, ~10.5 lbs, sport/scale). As such, it should be a good fit for the DLE 20cc engine, which delivers about 14 lbs of thrust with the right prop. When you say," this is one of the loveliest planes that I have ever flown", were you referring to a model or the real thing? They are a beautiful plane, and often referred to as such in the WWII literature. I also have an old Spitfire model. I honestly do not know who the manufacture is. I flew it a few days ago and had to make a forced landing with power as my flaperons deployed with out me giving the input. (?). A broken prop was the extent of the damage. I am using an OS .91FX glow engine in it, which hauls it around pretty good, but not much extra power. I have thought of putting the DLE 20 in it as mine weights just under 10 lbs. Keep us informed of your progress. Enjoy. Jon
Posted on: 3/31/2011 9:42 PM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Gas Engines"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10435796

RE: What Aircraft are you installing your DLE20
Dan Bummer! You did not get to fly the new plane, and I was axious to get your comments. We will have to hope for good weather next week. I do appreciate your input on the final weight and set-up. I like the dual elevator servos. Jon
Posted on: 3/31/2011 6:20 PM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Gas Engines"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10435473

RE: What Aircraft are you installing your DLE20
Hi Michel I got my DLE 20 about two weeks ago, but I have been envolved in covering and finishing a 1/4 scale J-3 Cub for a friend. So I have just been reading about and considering various planes that would seem to make a good fit for it. Your TopFlite .60 Spitfire should be a fun plane. The DLE 20 should pull it around pretty good at a weight of only 7.5-8.5 lbs. (~3.5kg to you). I am leaning toward other end of the spectrum, and considering the AW Extra 300 30cc at about 10 lbs. I'm willing to give up some performance for a bigger plane. We will have to compare notes after we get our DLE 20's up in the air! Thanks, Jon
Posted on: 3/31/2011 6:12 PM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Gas Engines"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10435457

RE: What Aircraft are you installing your DLE20
airborne2.4 Thanks for your comments and the links to the flying video. The way the 30cc pulls the new AW Edge 540 around, I would think the 20cc would do o.k. for more scale flying. The Edge, like the Extra 300 30cc also has a 74" wingspan and weight 10-10.5 lbs. Thanks again, Jon
Posted on: 3/31/2011 5:21 PM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Gas Engines"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10435391

RE: What Aircraft are you installing your DLE20
a1pcfixer Thanks for the reference. Your guidelines are nicely stated and basically answers my question. I was hopeing that airborne2.4 or someone might have had some experience with a similiar sized/weight plane. Jon
Posted on: 3/31/2011 4:50 PM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Gas Engines"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10435345

RE: What Aircraft are you installing your DLE20
airborne2.4 You are correct about the Extra 300 being a 30cc size. My mistake. I was thinking about their proposed .90-1.2 size and they do call their current product offering the Extra 300, 30cc. This one has a wingspan of 74 inches and reportedly weighs in at 10-10.5 lbs. How do you think this would fly with the DLE 20cc? I'm looking for scale performance with enough power for decent loops, rolls, etc. Jon
Posted on: 3/31/2011 2:49 PM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Gas Engines"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10435137

RE: What Aircraft are you installing your DLE20
Dr. Dan Your GP Extra 300s looks really nice. Good luck tomorrow if you get to take a maiden flight with it. Be sure to let us all know how it flys with your DLE 20 cc. I'm interested in that, your GP Extra 300s seems a bit light for the DLE 20, but on the other hand the AW .90-1,20 Extra 300 seems a bit big and heavy. I like the Extra 300 and am curious as to how you make out with your's. I suppose the preformance difference between the two planes would be largely a matter of the weight/thrust ratio. Jon
Posted on: 3/31/2011 12:25 AM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Gas Engines"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10433991

RE: What Aircraft are you installing your DLE20
Zoaartcc Thanks for responding to my comment regarding your Extra 300S set up. I did not think anyone with your obvious attention to detail would not take advantage of putting the anntena leads at 90 degrees... Good luck with the weather in your part of the country. I was flying in sunshine and 82 degrees of warmth today here in Florida! sorry, could not resist.. Let us know how that Extra 300S flys with the DLE 20 on board. I have a new DLE 20 and am still trying to decide what plane to put it in. Jon
Posted on: 3/21/2011 12:52 AM by Author "Jonde" in the forum "Gas Engines"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10413114