|
RE: Electric Retracts From E-flite
[quote]ORIGINAL: _Tommy D Beware of one thing if flying Spektrum. It is advised to never use slow down modules... reverse ''Y''s and the likes. Never knew it till I read it on the Spektrum web page! [/quote] Where did you read this? Do you have a link?
Posted on: 6/28/2010 11:16 AM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Warbirds and Warplanes"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9831672
RE: Lado retracts, do the really exist?
The new Lado's are made in France and sold through Magnum - when stock becomes available. The old Lado and Doug are completely out of the picture now.
Posted on: 5/22/2010 12:24 AM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Warbirds and Warplanes"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9750755
RE: Lado retracts, do the really exist?
[quote]ORIGINAL: funkymeter2003 Joseph, Thank you for the address. It is my understanding that the new owners are attempting to fill back orders. That, to me, seems very gracious of them as legally they probably do not have to do that. Of course I will believe it when I see it at this point. [/quote] You may want to re-read christophe31's post above. He makes it very clear that he is NOT filling any back orders. Thats still all in Dougs hands.
Posted on: 4/28/2010 11:36 PM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Warbirds and Warplanes"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9696908
RE: Electric Retracts - Modifying existing Air/Servo-operated Retracts
I was looking at those and the total cost of a stepper and controllers puts it out of the price range too. I havent seen anything that can compete with what Tom came up with originally as far as cost. If it wasnt for the programing of the controllers, anyone could do it ;)
Posted on: 4/14/2010 8:05 PM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Robotics and Autonomous Robots"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9661258
RE: Electric Retracts - Modifying existing Air/Servo-operated Retracts
Very nicely done!!!
Posted on: 4/11/2010 1:52 PM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Robotics and Autonomous Robots"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9653032
RE: Electric Retracts - Modifying existing Air/Servo-operated Retracts
Thanks Richard!
Posted on: 4/11/2010 2:44 AM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Robotics and Autonomous Robots"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9652289
RE: Electric Retracts - Modifying existing Air/Servo-operated Retracts
Thats a site I wasnt familiar with. At a quick glance I dont see any interfaces that would allow direct RC control from a standard Tx. Do you know off hand if they have any? Thanks!
Posted on: 4/10/2010 9:30 PM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Robotics and Autonomous Robots"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9651818
RE: Electric Retracts - Modifying existing Air/Servo-operated Retracts
Here is a way to use two of those thrust bearings I linked to above. This would easily handle any thrust loads in either direction.
Posted on: 4/10/2010 11:52 AM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Robotics and Autonomous Robots"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9650848
RE: Electric Retracts - Modifying existing Air/Servo-operated Retracts
LOL I tried the parachute but the darn lines kept getting tangled up in the blades! :)
Posted on: 4/10/2010 2:34 AM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Robotics and Autonomous Robots"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9650324
RE: Electric Retracts - Modifying existing Air/Servo-operated Retracts
[quote]ORIGINAL: monocoupe Thanks Larry. You hit the nail on the head. There are no servos to be used anywhere in the system! The plan is to use small gear motors to drive the jack screws. In fact, my concept is for the finished product to be unitized....motor and jack screw together as an actuator (x4). What's needed is a system to allow for adjustable end point stops plus a mid-point stop. If this unit could also sync the units, that would be a tremendous bonus! I'm sorry if anyone feels that I have altered the course of this discussion, but I felt that the flap jack screw was so similar to the retracts in function that it was worth discussing hand in hand with regard to the development of an ECU.... I hope Boeing 314 will chime in here with his thoughts! Cheers, Nigel [sm=regular_smile.gif] [/quote] Here are some ready made linear servos/actuators that might get you to where you want. Some of them have proportional control and some dont so you need to read the specs. You may need to buy a seperate RC control board for them to work with your rc gear. Again, RTFM :D Most of them are way to big and heavy to fit in a typical wing or any existing retract but they do have a few smaller ones. They are also a good bit more $$ than the motor/controller options we have been looking at so far. http://www.robotshop.com/firgelli-actuators-2.html
Posted on: 4/9/2010 5:34 PM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Robotics and Autonomous Robots"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9649382
RE: Electric Retracts - Modifying existing Air/Servo-operated Retracts
[quote]ORIGINAL: FliteMetal This is getting real sideways for some reason. A screw jack driven by a servo, as has been described here in detail, can be operated in any of two directions across time with variable end points (aka stops) set by 12Z or 14Z Futaba transmitter, plus any additional attributes set within the channel expander set up sub-menues. No one ever claimed there were any electrical monitoring attributes attributed to the Futaba channel expansion unit in its application to a flap set up. You are creating issues which do not exist in flap applications. Aside from failure of a servo, flap control issues are usually mechanical linkage or geometry issues. The ECU I offered Nigel would control servo motors be they with altered or unaltered stops. He could drive a screw jack in-kind to a spline drive setup with servo laying on its side. [/quote] It sounds to me like you've completely missed what we are talking about in this thread Ed. Where did we discuss driving screw jacks with servos any where in this thread? If thats what you thought, then I now understand your earlier complaints about the control board discussion and programming. Thats not at all whats being discussed in this thread. If you did connect a servo up to a screw jack as you suggest, driven directly off the splined output shaft, you could only get, at most, about one half of a full turn on the screw. Hardly enough to drive a flap over any useful distance unless the gearing of the screw jack was extremely hi. Just the opposite of what we have been looking at mechanically. Even if you switched to a servo the was capable of continuous 360 degree rotation, like a sail winch servo, you still couldn't control where it stopped (end points), beyond that initial 1/2 to 1 full rotation, via the Tx. When doing multiple rotations, its either on or off. There is no built in control over when it stops or how many rotations it does other than by flipping a switch on the tx after its turned as many times as you want. Kind of hard to judge when the flap is fully deployed or retracted or at 30 degrees when the plane is way off in the distance. You would end up jamming the servo or not getting full deployment at either end. You would still need to build/program an additional controller board over and above that channel expander. In other words - you still need a motor and gear drive to turn the jack screw and an ECU specifically designed to control that motors stopping points after its turned many many revolutions. [b]THAT[/b] is what we have been discussing in this thread from day one. Hope this helps clear that up.
Posted on: 4/9/2010 5:27 PM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Robotics and Autonomous Robots"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9649367
RE: Electric Retracts - Modifying existing Air/Servo-operated Retracts
[quote]ORIGINAL: monocoupe I'm a self professed ''electrical idiot'', have a channel expander and I'm certain that it won't do the job. There will be four screw jacks (2 per flap) and three positions: Up, Take Off, Landing. Flap deflection is accomplished by the tracks, so all the screw jacks have to do is move them fore and aft. The only difference I can see from landing gear is that there is an intermediate position between the end points (take off flap position) What I would like is to have a unit that could accomplish this sequencing without the use of micro-switches. What do you think you electronic wizards? Is this doable? I'm not quite at the point of building the wings just yet....but soon! Cheers, Nigel [/quote] It sounds to me like Boeing314's setup could do it all. The only part Im not sure of is the intermediate takeoff position. The motor would not be stalling and sending an amp spike that the controller could sense to determine that position accurately. Might have to set that point based on time alone. Boeing314 would need to address that to be sure.
Posted on: 4/9/2010 2:04 PM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Robotics and Autonomous Robots"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9648984
RE: Electric Retracts - Modifying existing Air/Servo-operated Retracts
Unless Im misunderstanding things, a jack screw is exactly what we are building here to operate the retracts except that Nigel will be using one to drive the flap mechanism on his bird. It doesnt sound to me like he has a servo operating the jack screw and no way to control the screw travel or drive the motor portion. That Futaba ECU you talk about isnt an ECU at all. Its just a channel expander and adds no more functions than would be available on any hi end rx. You cant just plug in any old motor to an rx chanel and expect it to work via your tx signal. Thats the entire point of the Pololu boards and software that has been discussed to date. I ask again - how do you expect it to operate a jack screw type mechanism without a motor controller and some sort of feedback to sense the end travel?
Posted on: 4/9/2010 2:00 PM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Robotics and Autonomous Robots"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9648973
RE: Electric Retracts - Modifying existing Air/Servo-operated Retracts
[quote]ORIGINAL: FliteMetal Nigel, If you are using Futaba and have the required transmitter the channel expander ECU is on sale at Tower for $9.99 from its original $99.99. It should provide control for a screw jack. Futaba MPDX-1 Multi-Proportional Decoder 8-Channel [/quote] How does this provide control of a screw jack? It has no current sensing and no motor control built in. It just adds additional channels to an existing rx. If this can be made to work, then any rx could be made to work. Can you expand on this Ed? Here is a link to the specs. http://www.futaba-rc.com/radioaccys/futm4158.html
Posted on: 4/9/2010 12:04 PM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Robotics and Autonomous Robots"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9648748
RE: Electric Retracts - Modifying existing Air/Servo-operated Retracts
I did some quick looking and I cant find the thrust bearings I had in mind in the sizes that would work easily. I know they exist because I have them in the tail of my 450 sized heli. All I can find are larger sizes that would probably work ok for large scale gear but not the smaller stuff. You may have to use the type Tom used. Its more of a thrust washer type of set up. Here is an example. http://www.rcplanet.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MIN130-068&click=3 You will need to change the way the bearing is fixed in place but thats simple to do. In fact, ths type of bearing may be easier to use over all.
Posted on: 4/8/2010 7:43 PM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Robotics and Autonomous Robots"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9647331
RE: Electric Retracts - Modifying existing Air/Servo-operated Retracts
It occurs to me that many, maybe even most, thrust bearings are designed to handle thrust in only one direction. In that case, you would need to use two back to back in order to handle the up/down forces. Check the specs when you order.
Posted on: 4/8/2010 7:44 AM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Robotics and Autonomous Robots"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9645839
RE: Electric Retracts - Modifying existing Air/Servo-operated Retracts
By the way, if your worried small thrust bearings wont be strong enough, think about the forces acting on heli blades spinning at thousands of rpm. If your still worried - double up and use two bearings back to back :)
Posted on: 4/8/2010 2:24 AM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Robotics and Autonomous Robots"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9645628
RE: Electric Retracts - Modifying existing Air/Servo-operated Retracts
Here is one option that would work. Depending on the retract type and how much side to side movement there is in the retract drive shaft as it moves from UP to DOWN, you might need to mount the outer race of the thrust bearings to the motor/gear box case/mount or to the retract body. What ever works. You can get any size thrust bearing you might need from Boca bearing or several other places. As long as the inner race ID matches your output shaft OD most anything will work. Id want sealed bearings for longer life but there are literally hundreds of options and sizes. If you didnt want to machine some way to attach the outer race to the mount you could just use a cut down heli tail or main blade grip that uses bearings of the same OD. You could also just use a fixed partition on either side of the thrust bearing that rides on the outer race. There are lots of ways to do that. The key is you want the shaft to run in and push/pull on the inner race of the thrust bearing. So you need to fix the outer race in place some way to the motor mount and/or the retract body. That way all the push pull forces are against the retract body or the motor mount and not on the gear box output shaft. The push pull forces from the shaft are transfered to the inner race of the thrust bearing by the wheel collar and the coupling via the small washers on either side of the thrust bearing. Those small washer only touch the inner race. There are bound to be dozens of ways to do that depending on how you mount the motor/gear box and how the retracts are made.
Posted on: 4/8/2010 2:19 AM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Robotics and Autonomous Robots"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9645624
RE: Electric Retracts - Modifying existing Air/Servo-operated Retracts
I hope this time my post shows up.... Tom, you say "But just remember, without a good and reliable actuator design, you can just throw the electronics away!" I say back to you "But just remember, without a good electronics you can just throw your reliable actuator away!" :D Thats one of the great things about this board and the forums in general - we get to share in and pool, the knowledge and expertise from people with a wide range of experience, training and education. To you and Ed the electronics and programming are the easy part and hardly need discussion. Im no EE and no programmer to so me thats all black box stuff. I will need my hand held at all points if Im to follow in your footsteps and make my own ECU. However, the mechanical issues are - for me - the easy part. You say its important to isolate the thrust loads from the gear assembly? I say "No problem". Been there done that many times. Whats all the fuss about? :) I think that will be the case with many other modelers as well. Especially anyone who has ever built a heli. Helicopters have huge thrust loads and axial loads on the rotating shafts that drive and control the blades. Every successful heli ever built handles that problem with ease. Nothing to it :) So I say the mechanics are not the problem, you say the electronics are not the problem. Between the bunch of us - its going to be easy! All we need to do is share that information - which is what these boards are all about :D Now Tom, if you need to keep your particular solutions - mechanical and/or electronic - under wraps for business reasons, I have no problem with that and wish you the best of luck. Who knows, one of us may suggest something you may want to incorporate into your commercial venture. I wish you the best of luck no matter how it turns out. If your not familiar with the way heli heads and in particular, the blade grips, are built, Id suggest you check it out. Your mechanical problems have been solved for decades and off the shelf parts are readily available. If Boeing314 decides to make a commercial venture with his ECU solutions, and therefore keep them secret, that will kill my chances of following in your guys footsteps. I would still wish him good luck in his venture despite it meaning my misfortune. If thats the case, hopefully, someone else will come along who knows this programming and board level voodoo who is willing to share. I can only hope :)
Posted on: 4/7/2010 11:41 PM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Robotics and Autonomous Robots"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9645413
RE: Electric Retracts - Modifying existing Air/Servo-operated Retracts
Ed, I have no idea where you are coming from with this or what you're trying to say. You keep contradicting yourself. Maybe your spot on and Im just to stupid to follow your logic here. All I know is you have driven away the key people contributing to this thread. The key people that would have allowed us to get a set of retracts working. As far as I can see you have contributed nothing except criticisms. Tell you what, sense you dont like the direction this thread is going - and has been from the beginning - why dont you go start your own thread and leave us to techno-dribble as we desire?
Posted on: 4/7/2010 1:15 PM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Robotics and Autonomous Robots"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9643217
RE: Electric Retracts - Modifying existing Air/Servo-operated Retracts
Ed, I have no problems with you wanting to discuss mechanical issues, problems or solutions. I dont think anyone else does either. Thats a perfectly legitimate and valuable subject for discussion in this thread. Just please dont try to suppress the other - also perfectly legitimate and valuable - portions of the discussion about the ecu and the necessary programming. Boeing314 - I do hope you will come back to this discussion and continue your very much needed and very much appreciated and very valuable and very much ON TOPIC contributions. Please?? The mechanics in my opinion, are the easy part of converting existing retracts to electric operation. I think most modelers would agree. Im lost on the rest of it without detailed help from guys like you. I/we need your expertise.
Posted on: 4/7/2010 12:51 PM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Robotics and Autonomous Robots"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9644123
RE: Lado retracts, do the really exist?
[quote]ORIGINAL: kodi7 Who IS the new owner of LADO; Magnum RC or someone in France? [/quote] Its hard to tell due to translation issues, but it sounds to me like the new owner is/will be the french guy and the US distributor is going to be Magnum. However, it looks like the old LADO is doing all the back orders. Maybe. Larry
Posted on: 4/7/2010 11:51 AM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Warbirds and Warplanes"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9643990
RE: Electric Retracts - Modifying existing Air/Servo-operated Retracts
[quote]ORIGINAL: FliteMetal Larry3215, My ''intention'' is to contribute to the thread focusing on a mechanical solution, not just another wannabe failure. The mechanical aspect of electric/electronic gear has been its demise in every case to date. Success/failure is not found within code, it is embedded within actuator mechanical design. [/quote] Ed, You need the mechanics
Posted on: 4/6/2010 12:39 PM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Robotics and Autonomous Robots"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9641504
RE: Electric Retracts - Modifying existing Air/Servo-operated Retracts
Way to go Ed! You've managed to kill a really great thread and screw over several hundred of your fellow modelers at the same time. All for no dam reason at all. I want you to know I really appreciate your outstanding contribution to the modeling community. You deserve a reward of some kind for sure.
Posted on: 4/4/2010 12:43 PM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Robotics and Autonomous Robots"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9636419
RE: Electric Retracts - Modifying existing Air/Servo-operated Retracts
[quote]ORIGINAL: Boeing314 [quote]Dribble started in post 110...[/quote] I have no problem starting my own thread. I just thought, like many, that the sharing of ideas online is just what RC universe is all about. This is a complex subject that the modeling industry has chosen to ignore/not venture into for at least my 40 years of modeling. We can share or not share, but those who are willing to try new ideas would be the poorer, I feel, if there was no exchange of information. That's how hobbies grow and thrive. My two cents. [b]I will continue my R&D off site and off forum.[/b] [/quote] Please dont allow Ed's baseless accusations and silly ideas to drive you away. This forum IS all about [b]sharing information[/b] NOT driving it "back channel". This forum would not exist if every exchange had to happen back channel. Thats the most ridiculous thing Ive heard on-line in a long long time. This thread has had almost 8000 views in a relatively short time. Obviously Ed is a minority of ONE verses many many modelers who are very interested in following your progress - in this thread! Moving to "back channel" would waist a lot of your time answering individual e-mails and questions from hundreds of individuals trying to follow this to its conclusion and at the same time leave those hundreds, who dont have access to your expertise, out in the cold. Ed, if you dont want to read a post just skip over it. Dont try to suppress the open - and easy - exchange of ideas this forum represents. Tom is no longer contributing to this thread AND he has given his blessing for us to continue what he started. What the hell is your problem?
Posted on: 4/4/2010 11:01 AM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Robotics and Autonomous Robots"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9636205
RE: Electric Retracts - Modifying existing Air/Servo-operated Retracts
Ed, I dont understand your problem or why you are trying to shut this down. The "techno drible" is exactly what this thread has been about from the very beginning. And, yes, this entire site is all about sharing information, "techno drible" as you call it. On top of that, Tom has given his blessing. Whats your beef?
Posted on: 4/3/2010 6:00 PM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Robotics and Autonomous Robots"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9634834
RE: Electric Retracts - Modifying existing Air/Servo-operated Retracts
Outstanding! Thank you!!!!!!!!
Posted on: 3/27/2010 2:07 AM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Robotics and Autonomous Robots"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9615414
RE: Electric Retracts - Modifying existing Air/Servo-operated Retracts
It looks like the boards come with a USB port built in? If so - does that mean all I would need to program one of these setups is a cable and a computer? Someone said this programs were in text format - does that mean all you need is a text editor to write the programs? How do you send it to the board? Something like Hyperterminal in windows or is there some special software you need?
Posted on: 3/26/2010 8:27 PM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Robotics and Autonomous Robots"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9614781
RE: Electric Retracts - Modifying existing Air/Servo-operated Retracts
Congrats and good luck with your new venture!!!
Posted on: 3/22/2010 1:03 AM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Robotics and Autonomous Robots"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9601464
RE: Electric Retracts - Modifying existing Air/Servo-operated Retracts
I was just looking at the Pololu site again. It looks like they have programed controllers but Im not well enough informed to know if one of them would do what I want without needing special porograming. Is there one thats ready to go - plug-n-play more or less? I can handle the motor, gearing and drive components fine. Just need to be able to controll the unit from my Tx - easily :)
Posted on: 3/19/2010 7:17 PM by Author "Larry3215"
in the forum "RC Robotics and Autonomous Robots"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9595964
| 
