RE: Add a Channel to 2-Channel X 4' Sailplane?
If you have never used electric (current brushless system with LiPo's and chargers, etc) then glow may be for you. However, there is no substitute for the simplicity and quiteness of an electric sailplane - it is a match made in heaven and you can shut the motor off at 4 crashes high instead of 1000 feet and this will help your grandchild see it easier and see thier responses more readily. You just run it at partial throttle so that it stays pretty much at constant altitude. I can run mine for 40min this way. I can show you what I used on mine but it would be $100 investment in motor, ESC, batteries and your time. However, you never have to worry about glow battery, the right fuel or cutting your finger on a prop. There is no cleanup with electric. I am terribly biased by the way having flown electric for 20 years now. I have even lopped the noses of all of my "true sailplanes" and have never looked back. (OK, I did have some tears when I cut through my Dodgson Windsong nose). Scott
Posted on: 4/19/2012 7:30 PM by Author "LovesToSail" in the forum "RC Gliders, Sailplanes and Slope Soaring"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11049278

RE: Add a Channel to 2-Channel X 4' Sailplane?
Triple agree!!!! 2 channels to start - but if you are putting an electric in it - be able to reduce its effectiveness with radio... I have a gentle lady that runs for a really long time at constant altitude with 1300mAh pack - it has been used to teach quite a few people how to fly. It is Rudder, Elevator and Throttle only... PS - I HIGHLY suggest electric (although that plane might be a bit small to start) and the gentle lady with simple motor/ESC is hard to beat for pure flying smplicity. No winch or highstart to futz with... Think about it... [quote]ORIGINAL: kwmtrubrit I agree with Fleet, KISS!! A polyhedral sailplane doesn't need ailerons anyway. Changing from 2/3 channel to four really isn't that hard. Put your rudder control on your right hand stick where ailerons would be controlled. Your elevator is already there, so you are basically flying using one stick only. When you decide to go four channel, you're already using that stick and will only need to get used to the rudder on the left stick on occasion. I say on occasion as you will probably have ailerons and rudder working together anyway. Just my two penneth worth. [/quote]
Posted on: 4/15/2012 6:08 PM by Author "LovesToSail" in the forum "RC Gliders, Sailplanes and Slope Soaring"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11043393

RE: Do you use FrSky Modules and Receivers?
[quote]ORIGINAL: aeajr Any other FrSky glider pilots? I hear someone is trying to turn the telemetry altimeter into an audio vario. [/quote] I have the altimeter - its real neat to have your buddy call out - 900 ft, 950 ft, 970 ft... and that was in two turns.... thermals were a booming yesterday. PS - altimeter is great for others - we all thought are planes were much higher than in fact they really were.
Posted on: 4/15/2012 5:49 PM by Author "LovesToSail" in the forum "RC Gliders, Sailplanes and Slope Soaring"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11043363

RE: Anyone Flying the Turnigy 9x for Sailplanes?
[quote]ORIGINAL: Aurora_60 It sounds like the 9x is pretty much an Aurora radio. I haven't looked into either radio in depth, just what I've been hearing on the forums. Are they the same? Can the 9x do as much as the Aurora? I'm in the market, again, for a decent system. I had a 14mz but I got ripped off on it before I had a chance to fly it. I have a couple older computer tx: PCM10, 10S, 10sxII, 8103, 8U super and a 9zap wcII. Been a while since I had them out and I cant remember their programming. Whould you recomend updating these with the FrSky 2.4, or get the 9x? I always flew my gliders with simple RES controls and simple mixing. Now I want to do more mixing and crow features. DM [/quote] NO! Aurora is much higher quality and has much better gimbals than the 9x.... Functionally, 9X can do much with updated SW and I would pit it against anything, its limit being the # of mixes allowed (32 I believe). I am actually looking at taking the guts of mine and putting it into another chassis with Aurora gimbals... Bear in mind, the 9x is under $100 but with some updates FUNCTIONALLY can do a lot. Doesnt change the fact that the gimbals are not quad bearing, etc... Scott
Posted on: 4/8/2012 11:24 AM by Author "LovesToSail" in the forum "RC Gliders, Sailplanes and Slope Soaring"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11033249

RE: Anyone Flying the Turnigy 9x for Sailplanes?
I have upgraded to ER9X (never even tried stock). I used the Smartieparts adapter board I installed the RS-232 converter to get real time telemetry and I use FrSky telemetry... I wish I could answer your questions regarding the stock firmware but I can't as on day one I moved to ER9X. I only use these radios now on my sailplanes (electric and at most valued to $1K) and as you, fly them way out although I am sight limited and doubt I made it 1/2 mile. In any case, the 9x/FrSky system I describe below will tell you when you are getting out of RANGE!. (PS - in addition to my gliders which I consider near priceless as they are not available anymore AND I dont have time to build much, I also fly a F27 Stryker, a 50" Edge 540, and small 3D Foamies so this is a versatile system). Hardware Review I would not recommend that anyone take these radios and use out of the box like you would a Futaba. First of all, manufacturing on these is not to Futaba or Hitec quality. The design and "parts" internally are good, the circuit boards are very well done, but the point to point wiring can be poor as it appears to be manually done by "cheap" labor. That being said, if you (or a buddy) are not afraid to take the back off and check/repair the wiring (one frayed connection on one joint of my 2 transmitters). I personally would not use one of these without a complete inspection and remedy which can be done in 30 min or less. I believe this same frayed wire issue has effected some well known brands - but not Futaba... But, this is not that big a deal to inspect (I know it probably sounds bad). Oh by the way, while the back is off? you put Steven's smartieparts non-solder board to allow the flash of the firmware, USB connectivity with your PC and provide a backlight at same time. The battery holder is utter rubbish and has to be replaced with decent battery - like a LiFe then you dont' worry about that. But pay careful attention, you can put the connector in wrong and trash the radio. I have completely switched to FrSky 2.4GHz RF solution with telemetry. I trust these like I do Futaba (take them out of the box and use them). On the 6 channel telemetry receiver - I use hot glue to retain the antennas as they are plugged in (so you can swap different length units in). ER9X SW I only use these radios now (all others retired) and I can do things with this very few others can regardless of their purchase price... 1) I can connect any channel (throttle, rudder, etc) to any servo number on the receiver. When for example, when using crow, I can set it up the way I want with whatever servo on whatever input. 2) I can mix whatever input with any other channel (add, sub, mul) 3) I can use "curves" on my elevator compensation when motor is on (as opposed to the linear) 4) I also have put in the telemetry mod so I can read telemetry ON the 9x display - the default is you get warning beeps from the RF module when voltage or RSSI (received signal strength at the receiver) is low. 5) Oh yes, one of the telemetry inputs is an ALTITUDE sensor, not very useful for flying the glider as you need to keep on the glider, but your buddy can read it! 6) I can offload all models from transmitter to my PC, simulate them there, modify them (EEPE) and then put them back in transmitter. The transmitter can store about 10-16 models - depending on their complexity. OVERALL So, why do I like this radio? Well if you can get past the manufacturers issues with quality (which is not hard work to remedy), you can modify this radio to do ANYTHING from a SW perspective. The first thing is to install a board that is solderless - it mounts on the right pins and permits the following; 1) the ability to upgrade the firmware, 2) the ability to pull plane/models from your PC to the transmitter and back (this is HUGE - you can have 10+ models in memory, but an INFINITE number of models on your computer - think about that), 3) the ability to put a backlight on the display (not that important - but some people want). On top of this, the SW is open source, so if you feel you want to change it - you can. The gentleman that creates the SW I use goes by the name Erazz (and others) and has simply done a wonderful job with the firmware. Let me give some examples of why I like the firmware. Dodgson (1987 vintage) Windsong 134" - single servo for flap, independent servos for ailerons (so a 3 servo wing), electric hybrid (got tired of winch time delay in setting up, etc - I am too old to futz with the transport, setup, maint, broken lines, tangled lines, always downwind) 1) Motor thrust compensation - These motors pull like "heck" and they generate a large pitching moment due to the speed of the wing - so I put in a "mix" that introduced down elevator as a function of throttle. This is a "curve", not just a linear multiplier!!!!! So at 50% throttle, not much down elevator, at 75% some down elevator, at 100% about the same as 75%.. but You can make it what you want. Oh yea, because the pitching moment doesn't occur right away, I put in a filter that slows the pitch command to the elevator servo. Also, when I remove the motor power, I want the servo to slowly move back to neutral (not instantly which would generate a pitch up movement by itself since this mix is applying down elevator). I just recently decided to do this and I like it. 2) Ail to rudder mix - just like the original, I use a little linear mixing of Ail to Rudder. 3) Flap operation - I use a 3 position switch that controls the flaps. I have the flaps drop down slowly and go up slowly to reduce the pitching amplitude. I also use the 3rd position on the switch to reflex (or Crow) the ailerons. Of course I can mix in a "curve" of elevator compensation just for this mix. When I move from position 3 (crow) to position 2, the ailerons move slowly (as they do going up from position 2 (flap) to crow position.). But if I go from position 3 to 1 - all surfaces move fast to neutral. I like this for landing - come in with flaps, move to 1 and watch it settle as lift is removed quickly. 4) I also use a high expo rate - more now that I am older. In addition, due to the massive thrust of the prop, I change the elevator and rudder "rate" limits (it supports triple rates) limit as a function of throttle position! So for example, at 75% throttle, I limit rudder and elevator to 60% of normal travel. This helps tame the monster as she is moving out under power. I could do same with ailerons but have not found the need. 5) I use a switch to drop the flaps a "bit" when thermaling (I keep ailerons up but could drop them). Simple enough. Oh by the way, any switch can operate pretty much any command. Also, you can use combinations of switches to set a command or mode. Of course, travel limits, offsets, etc are all part of the package so no need to mention those. This Transmitter does use all digital trims (which I prefer when moving from plane to plane but I don miss the old mechanical trims for the position feedback while flying). This is all the mixing I use for the Windsong (the Airtronics Legend I fly is a 4 servo wing but is pretty much the same), but the radio has one more capability worth mentioning. I have switched recently to FrSky 2.4GHz module. Yes this 9x is a modular (JR) radio so you can run FM or any of various 2.4 modules. I used a DIY (solder in) to eliminate a potential failure due to connectors. But with the FrSky, this radio INTEGRATES the telemetry! On MY transmitter's LCD - I can see the voltage of the ESC (typically 5v) as well as a second sensor - right now I have pack voltage. How many times have you flown, then after a long flight you bring it down because you don't know what your pack voltage is? No longer an issue. I should note that I don't personally fly below 50% capacity of a LiPo battery (on purpose anyway). This helps provide me with that confidence. I need to mention that part of Eraz's package is a PC simulator for the mixing logic. I can try all of the mixes using this PC simulation which is quite cool. All of the mixes, simulator etc are VERY UNIQUE and different - it does require a learning curve but there are forums that provide great support. There is also a telemetry hub that lets you put in a GPS and altimeter. I bought an altimeter (this one does not require a hub) and have used it - really cool to now see how high my plane is. Can you tell why I use this Radio? I don't use any other radio due to this one's flexibility. The FrSky RF connection is solid, the telemetry is awesome (I can't go back now as it is much like going from RC to control line) and I trust it. I do a preflight prior to each flight (regardless of radio), range check frequently, inspect planes connections (electrical as well as mechanical fasters on motors, linkages frequently (at least once a year, certainly after any crash). So, I now have a direct measurement of my flight pack voltage (battery V), the RSSI and no longer guess if it is time to land because I am out of battery or out of range. Scott
Posted on: 4/5/2012 4:06 AM by Author "LovesToSail" in the forum "RC Gliders, Sailplanes and Slope Soaring"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11029030

RE: Anyone Flying the Turnigy 9x for Sailplanes?
I am! But you already saw my post on other forum ;) I mostly fly RES with 2 planes that have flaps/ailerons... All are electric... Scott
Posted on: 4/4/2012 3:57 PM by Author "LovesToSail" in the forum "RC Gliders, Sailplanes and Slope Soaring"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11028475

RE: Do you use FrSky Modules and Receivers?
I as well have switched to the FrSky 2.4 GHz solution with telemetry. In all fairness, I have little time in air with it - maybe 6 -8 hours? I used Fly Dream 2.4 for last year or so and decided I wanted/needed telemetry. I went with the FlySky 9x (with ER9x firmware) transmitter so that I had integrated telemetry. This lets me see received signal strength (at receiver), LiPo voltage as well as BEC voltage. I also have altitude on my screen (which is quite useless for the pilot but great for buddy to read off). Because this system gives all of this data, it gives me a warm fuzzy because I know longer guess on LiPo voltage or the received signal strength (am I in range). I can't tell you the number of times I ditched a thermal because I was worried about pack voltage - no more. Scott PS Dodgson 134" Windsong Craft Air Viking Airtronics Legend Goldberg Gentle Lady Airtronics Sagitta 900 3 Transmitters in use 1 FlySky 9x with Fly Dream 2.4 (for park and smaller planes - very light) 1 FlySky 9x with FrSky 2.4 (for bigger planes/sailplanes) with integrated Telemetry 1 Hitec Eclipse 7 with Fly 2.4 (backup only now)
Posted on: 2/7/2012 3:13 PM by Author "LovesToSail" in the forum "RC Gliders, Sailplanes and Slope Soaring"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10948550

RE: Need Some Advice On A Goldberg Electra
Not sure if you bought your gear yet... I have 20 year old gentle lady (pretty much the same plane with maybe a lighter fuse) that weighs 30oz - ready to fly with 1300mAh 3 Cell, KDA20-22L and CAM 10x6 prop. While it is not a vertical climbing machine (13.5A peak at fresh battery voltage), it can fly for a really, really, long time under motor power (not full of course). Approx 3.5 - 4 minutes at full throttle. I would caution you about running such a big battery as a 2800 in such a a small plane... I actually use 1300mAh in my 99" Sagitta which weighs 51oz ready to fly and that gets me 4+ launches to winch height. The 3M planes I use a 2200 or greater battery. Scott [quote]ORIGINAL: Hydro Junkie Considering that I'm not an veteran electric flyer, I am really liking the contrasting thoughts on power options for the Electra. What is really refreshing is that everyone involved with this thread has been helpful and not pushing an agenda like I've run into in other forums. Getting back to the glider, what I was told in a PM is as shown below: Goldberg Electra = 48 oz. 48 oz ÷ 16 oz in a pound = 3 pounds 3 pounds X 100 watts per pound = 300 watts This was the basis of the Rimfire .15 as a motor. To take this one step further: So a 10x5 prop at 10,656 RPM will give us 3 pounds of thrust at a speed of 50 mph using 302 watts. As for battery pack size, this was the basis used to arrive at the size pack listed earlier: For my personal taste, (your's will be different) I like to set up my gliders to have five, one minuet runs with one minute of extra for the no more than 80% use on a charge lipo rule. I found an easy way to get this is by taking the 27.2 amps and moving the decimal to the left and converting it to a comma then adding a zero will give a mah we need. 27.2 = 2,72 2,72 = 2,720 rounded up to 2,800 mah So looks like we need a 3S 2,800 mah pack for the Electra Since everything was based on a 48 ounce glider instead of a 30-32, everything is sized roughly 50% oversized, that is IF I can build the glider in the 30 or so ounce range We may need to meet up in the spring since Chilliwack isn't that far from Marysville, just a quick run along I-5[;)] [/quote]
Posted on: 12/18/2011 7:52 PM by Author "LovesToSail" in the forum "RC Gliders, Sailplanes and Slope Soaring"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10865902

RE: Getting back in
I strongly recommend moving to a different plane (I have the legend). It is very heavy compared to modern planes both in the wing design as well as the fuse (fiberglass with T-tail). It does fly well, but it is a LOT of work to build. Consequently, I would suggest a more current pod/boom, lightweight design with more current airfoil and 2/3rds the wing loading. Scott
Posted on: 10/26/2011 7:16 PM by Author "LovesToSail" in the forum "RC Gliders, Sailplanes and Slope Soaring"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10784367

RE: Craft air gliders, were are they?
Just a suggestion.... Go electric - it will weigh possibly a little more which is not a bad thing and you will never have to worry about making the diesel fuel, starting, the cleanup/residue. Electric is SO effiicient now that I have coverted every single sailplane over to it. I use motors that cost less than $20, speed controllers that cost same and batteries. I have a gentle lady that I have trained many people on this summer and it actually has an expensive $17 motor on it ;) Scot
Posted on: 8/19/2011 12:58 PM by Author "LovesToSail" in the forum "RC Gliders, Sailplanes and Slope Soaring"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10677698

RE: Craft air gliders, were are they?
Looks like a Viking (Craft Air)
Posted on: 8/12/2011 8:21 PM by Author "LovesToSail" in the forum "RC Gliders, Sailplanes and Slope Soaring"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10668231

RE: Electrifying a Legend
I electrified mine this year! I went with a turnigy 800KV 3548 (35mmx48mm) motor that can handle 50A (4 cell) and actually have been running it on 3 cell with 14x8 prop. I have exact same configuration on my windsong and use 4 cell and it takes it up real fast - roughly 1200fpm - winch height in 20-30 secs. I recommend 4 cell and prop to suit battery and peak amps. It is amazing how well this thing flies even at the weight it is (I see stars picking up the thing and almost pass out). I use Hobbywing 60A esc with 3A switching BEC and it handles all the servos just fine. The flaps are the biggest worry so test, test, on ground to ensure you BEC is sufficient. Scott
Posted on: 8/7/2011 7:44 PM by Author "LovesToSail" in the forum "RC Gliders, Sailplanes and Slope Soaring"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10660348

RE: Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?
Well said
Posted on: 7/26/2011 6:42 PM by Author "LovesToSail" in the forum "RC Gliders, Sailplanes and Slope Soaring"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10640496

RE: Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?
Well bear in mind that many people don't even know what a winch or hi-start is or how it works... Once they see one in action, they usually go ahhhhhhh.
Posted on: 7/8/2011 10:43 AM by Author "LovesToSail" in the forum "RC Gliders, Sailplanes and Slope Soaring"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10611918

RE: Looking for Newbie pilots to explain why you suggest motors on gliders?
I will give you my 2 cents... I have been flying since 1980 or thereabouts.... My preferred type of plane is a sailplane because I enjoy the piece and quietness as well as the challenge of finding a thermal. I will say, in my area at the field we used to use, it was really tough to get a 5 min flight due to poor thermal conditions, but when you did it was amazing. Part of this was the winch line length was on the short side. It was a pain to set up the winch, set up a retriever, no matter what we did we were down or cross wind. So move to 2000.... I built an Airtronics Legend (I fly a Dodgson Windsong, Craftair Viking and Airtronics Sagitta as well as a gentle lady). I just didn't have the energy to charge the winch battery, pack the van (which my wife insisted was hers), pack the plans, drive to the field, set up the winch (did I mention the heavy battery), deal with short flights, etc. In effect, I spent more time preparing and less time flying and the planes sat on the shelf. Couple that with "family" responsibilities and I had even less time to play with my big toys. Move to 2009, whoa baby, $15 motors, 40-60A speed controllers for $20 and 2200-4000mah lipos for $12-$50. I cringed when I first cut the nose off of a sailplane because these were my loves .... but I wasn't flying them (except the electric gentle lady). I now fly pretty much each one of these at least every other week (certainly 1 time per month). The funny thing is that many of them did not go up in weight a measurable amount due to the large amount of lead in the nose. Oh yea, my favorite? It is the poorest sailplane of all - the Viking (120" span, very wide cord, transparent red) because it is so easy for my old eyes to see and it is so incredibly stable in the air. Yes, I still enjoy the Windsong, but at altitude (which is no issue by the way with electric - it can get to 1000 feet in ~20-40 secs) I feel uncomfortable with it due to a lack of dihedral and a worry that it will spiral in if I lose orientation. So, now I can pack up, go to the field and FLY. I don't worry about wind direction, I don't worry about retrieving and I can focus on what I really love. Couple that with 2.4GHZ spread spectrum FHSS systems and I don't worry about interference.... Scott Did I mention I LOVE the 800KVA 35-48 Turnigy motors for $14.80? 4 cell for the windsong, 3 cell for the others and 14x8 or so props.
Posted on: 7/8/2011 7:00 AM by Author "LovesToSail" in the forum "RC Gliders, Sailplanes and Slope Soaring"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10611630

RE: Craft air gliders, were are they?
I do have to say that I really do appreciate electric power.. I used it in the late 80's but it was heavy, heavy, heavy. This new stuff (I use 15$ motors from Hobby King) is just awesome. I now have my Dodgson Windsong, Airtronics Sagitta 900, Gentle Lady, and the Viking converted. Airtronics Legend is sitting there waiting to be flown (and modified). Scott
Posted on: 5/20/2011 4:34 AM by Author "LovesToSail" in the forum "RC Gliders, Sailplanes and Slope Soaring"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10530706

RE: Craft air gliders, were are they?
How about a Craft Air Viking 2 (built in 1983), my first real sailplane... (Other than the drifter I started with :) ) Viking now has electric on the front as I am too old and lazy to set up a winch these days. No problem catching thermals now...
Posted on: 5/19/2011 7:39 PM by Author "LovesToSail" in the forum "RC Gliders, Sailplanes and Slope Soaring"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10530305

RE: Glider coverings
If it is too light - you won't get much penetration - and we know how important that is ;) Seriously, add weight and see if it flies better... Scott
Posted on: 10/20/2009 10:54 PM by Author "LovesToSail" in the forum "RC Gliders, Sailplanes and Slope Soaring"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9189724

RE: Hi, i got a 77 inch glider, i want a brushless motor for it
I have an Goldberg Electra (78" wing) - looks like you have the sister to it only sailplane version (not sure what your is). Here is what I use and HIGHLY recommend - it goes great, weighs little and is very affordable. Suggest the turnigy ESC 18 or 25 (I use the 25). KDA20-22L - hacker Style Brushless Outrunner 20-22L https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4700 HX8080 - hexTronik Balancer/Charger Dual Charge Capable (this thing is so inexpensive and works well) I used the 2200 3S Lip - I don't believe I have ever drained it as this thing thermals so well and is so much lighter than when I had a cobalt. I use a folding prop (this has a special size - order it from them), current draw starts at 15A and drops down to 12 or so. Love it. Scott PS - looks like your stab is broke...
Posted on: 10/11/2009 10:57 PM by Author "LovesToSail" in the forum "RC Gliders, Sailplanes and Slope Soaring"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9165363