RE: Bootlegger?
Also, the Compensator, I think, used a diamond airfoil stab and the Bootlegger's was more conventional symetrical airfoil. I believe the wing airfoils were similar or identical between the two planes. I remember seeing Steve fly the Bootlegger once with the variable pitch prop. Was interesting to watch him reverse the pitch and "brake" after touchdown. I agree with Dr. Mike, the OPS was a real power house, but tempermental. I've been an O.S. man for decades, since running the "Gold Head" back in the late 60's. They typically didn't have quite the HP of a few of the other top brands such as Rossi, OPS, or Webra but nearly always gave consistent performance. My wife remembers, when I became frustrated with the latest "gotta have it" engine, I would tell her I was performing an "O.S. overhaul", meaning I jerked it out of the plane and bolted in a new O.S. 95% of the time - Problem solved! I'm still flying my old yellow rag Southern R/C Tiger Tail, which is over 20 years old with many hundreds of flights by myself and others. It has the blue poly glass fuse. I think one place the Bootlegger and other planes picked up weight was in the pipe compartment floor that had to be glassed into the fuse and then insulated with at least 3/16 in foam or balsa. Depending on insulation material and adhesives, this probably added substantial weight to the plane in many cases.
Posted on: 6/17/2012 3:54 AM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Classic RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11120921

RE: Bootlegger?
The third picture in my post above is one of Steve's most common schemes. I don't know how many Bootleggers he personally had. The first one I saw when the kit was initially launched used the same design as shown above, but with bright yellow as the base color, dark blue where the red is in my photo, and red as the minor striping color. That was a very pretty combo! All of Steve's Bootleggers that I saw or saw photos of seemed to use that same basic trim outline/design. His planes always had beautiful painted finishes.
Posted on: 6/7/2012 7:39 AM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Classic RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11109949

RE: Bootlegger?
SOME BOOTS First 2 pics are my first Bootlegger from the M.A.N. article (with Norm Page Mach 1 style paint scheme). Third photo is Steve Helms on the left and I believe Earl Haury on the right at a contest in Ft. Worth sometime in the early 1980's. Note the straight stab on Steve's plane. The fourth photo is a Bootlegger that I think belonged to Texas flyer Tom Street.
Posted on: 6/6/2012 6:43 PM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Classic RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11109428

RE: Bootlegger?
I did the original Field and Bench article for Model Airplane News on the Bootlegger (4/79) with an O.P.S. .60 Rear exhaust. The original kit called for an anhedral stab and that is the way I built mine. Steve Helms told me the bent stab was more of a marketing decision than an aerodynamic one. That was the hayday of the Curare and Tipo and everybody was bending the stab down. My second bootlegger was purchased from a friend and also had a bent stab, so I can't really give a personal comparison. I did see several with straight stabs including ones that belonged to Steve Helms. A really solid bird. The original Southern R/C kits had a polyester glass fuse that wasn't the greatest. Someone later produced an epoxy fuse, but I can't remember who. With the enclosed pipe, they tended to turn out heavy if you weren't careful, and the heat could be a problem. Flew like it was on rails. You sort of "drove" it around the sky. Lots of good memories of those planes. Wouldn't mind having a good kit today! Never had a Compensator, although they were highly thought of in their day as well.
Posted on: 6/4/2012 7:07 PM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Classic RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11106644

RE: Electric power f/60 size classic pattern planes
I've looked on the SPA site and been unable to find anything about electrics. Can you post the specific link?
Posted on: 3/24/2012 5:28 AM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Classic RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11012802

RE: Pro Line Retracts
The Pro Line retracts became Southern R/C, then Dave Brown. As far as I know, they are still available from DB and the design changed little, if any over the years (a tribute to Mr. Chidgey's original design). They were similar to an early German design called KDH. Excellent units. I've used many sets of them over the years.
Posted on: 2/19/2012 5:33 PM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Classic RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10966605

RE: kraft Signature Series Jacket
I have one of the ones you sold. Had it configured exactly like my original by Tony Stillman. Like you, I still like the feel of quality. Also have an original 1970 Pro Line that works well on 6 meter freq.
Posted on: 1/19/2012 8:06 PM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Classic RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10917936

RE: Colored Silk
Try habotai silk at www.thaisilks.com
Posted on: 12/29/2011 8:34 PM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Classic RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10882314

RE: kraft Signature Series Jacket
I got my KSS in summer 1981, and I think they were gone about '82-83. Jacket eventually got oil soaked and torn. Wish I could get another one! Maybe someone in the SPA or this forum knows who the supplier was to Kraft, or if there was a stash of leftovers. I remember there were Kraft jackets that anyone could buy, that were different from the Signature jackets. We used to joke that the Signature jackets were VERY expensive jackets, but you got a free radio with them:-) Still love the feel of my Signature with Pro Line sticks and blue pots! It works fine on 6 meters. Thinking about having Tony Stillman do a 2.4 conversion on it.
Posted on: 12/25/2011 5:49 PM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Classic RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10876027

RE: Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III
Thanks for the info Ben. I have one of the Home Hobby Solutions kits for the Mk III and I'm giving some consideration to electric power. Maybe what's needed for vintage pattern is more like an EDF motor that could turn a smaller prop at higher rpm. BTW, Phil Kraft, in the original article in M.A.N. and on the plans, called it the "Mark III Kwik-Fli", so that is the form I try to stick with when I can remember. Thanks again for the inspiration.
Posted on: 2/25/2011 8:33 PM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Classic RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10364300

RE: Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III
Ben, What motor/prop combo are you currently using? I'm currently flying my Hangar 9 P-51 .60 with a .90 size elec motor and 16 in prop. Really enjoying it, but obvioiusly the prop is way too big for a vintage pattern bird. BTW, I had 3 Kwik Fli's back in the day. I know for a fact that Mr. Kraft's scratch-built KF III's used a DuBro 14 in. canopy which hasn't been available for decades. The one in the Graupner kit was too small. Don't know about the TF kit canopy. Maybe someone at Du Bro still has the mold?
Posted on: 2/25/2011 4:17 AM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Classic RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10362295

RE: The Tiger Tails????
The Tipo belongs to Ed. Pretty paint job!
Posted on: 12/5/2010 3:04 PM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Classic RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10178485

RE: The Tiger Tails????
Got to do some classic pattern flying with edwarda10pilot yesterday (great time!). Shot some pics of his Tiger Tail and mine. Ed's TT is Ron Chidgey's personal prototype for the Tiger Tail IV. Fuse is wood with a fiberglass canopy/pipe area. The wing is built up balsa and stab is removable (Mr. Chidgey was experimenting with different incidence setups at the time). Mine is a Tiger Tail III, all glass fuse with foam core/balsa sheet wing and stab from the Southern R/C kit. It was built in the late 1980's as a "transition" plane to the then new, "turnaround" pattern. Thus the conventional landing gear and Monokote wing/stab to reduce weight. I'm still not clear on the difference between the III and IV. Took a photo of the two, and configuration looks very similar. Maybe different airfoil, etc.
Posted on: 12/5/2010 5:20 AM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Classic RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10176982

RE: The Tiger Tails????
The original Tiger Tail was Ron Chidgey's Nats-winning design published in M.A.N. sometime in 1971 (I have article if you want it). Wood kit was sold by Southern R/C Products. I don't remember ever seeing a "Tiger Tail 2". The Tiger Tail 3 (which I have) was a glass/foam kit in the late 1970's, also by Southern R/C. It was slightly larger than the original TT, and could accept a rear exhaust .60 with engine upright and pipe running inside the fuse under the canopy. The Tiger Tail 4 and 4S are larger yet, and intended for 4 strokes, if I'm correct. Not sure of the difference between the 4 and 4S. Check http://www.scratchbuilderwarehouse.com/home. They are great performers and very honest, easy airplanes to fly. Hope this helps.
Posted on: 12/2/2010 4:27 AM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Classic RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10171144

RE: Help with RCM article DON JUAN II
Don Curtis lives here in San Antonio and still flies R/C. Don't know if he is on the forum or not. Will try to contact him and find out.
Posted on: 11/18/2010 6:30 AM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Classic RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10142860

RE: Home and Hobby Solutions, Inc. Qwic-Fly?
Didn't mean to make a big deal about it. I scratch built a couple of Kwik Fli III's back in it's heyday and the reference on the canopy and several other Kwik Fli issues came from people in California close to Mr. Kraft himself. I remember when finished, with the DuBro canopy, my plane looked EXACTLY like the ones in all the M.A.N. article photos, etc. Don't know about the TF canopy, as I never built one of their KF kits. The Graupner kit had a canopy that looked NOTHING like the original, although it was an awesome kit in every other way. I was told the older Kwik Fli II's had hand-carved balsa solid canopies, and thus would have had many variations. Jim Jensen's excellent kit of the Mk II had a clear molded styrene canopy which (again) looked different from any of PK's actual planes. Don't know when DuBro quit making canopies, but it was a long time ago. If someone managed to find one, I think it would be great to make a mold off it for all the vintage enthusiasts.
Posted on: 11/17/2010 7:44 AM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Classic RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10140758

RE: Dirty Birdy Control Surface Throws
If you can't find a reference, I would go with Ailerons 3/16 in each way in low rate, 1/4 in high rate. Elev 1/2 in each way in high rate, 3/8 in low. Rudder all you can get each way. This will get you in the ball park on most of the classic pattern ships. The Dirty Birdy is a sweet ship, and you shouldn't have any problems. Beyond that, it becomes a matter of personal taste, etc. Hope this helps.
Posted on: 11/14/2010 3:52 AM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Classic RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10134090

RE: Home and Hobby Solutions, Inc. Qwic-Fly?
Phil Kraft's original Kwik Fli III used a Du-bro 14 inch canopy. Haven't see one in decades, but if someone has one, that is the most "correct".
Posted on: 11/13/2010 8:50 PM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Classic RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10133647

RE: classic pattern
Dick Hanson also sold a high end "ARC" version of the Tipo, customized slightly for each purchaser. I have one that has been waiting for final paint for about 20 years! Fuse is epoxy glass. Wings and stab are foam/balsa sheet. He sold both a Tipo 750 (mine) and a larger "Hippo Tipo" version. Don't know who did the fuses for Hanson, or if he did them himself. I think he is still active, but not sure if he's on RCU or not.
Posted on: 11/10/2010 7:32 AM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Great Planes, TopFlite, Duraplane, US Aircore"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10126240

RE: electric classic pattern
Thanks for all the good info Dean! What we are really looking for is the "Rossi .60" of electric motors. I'm no engineer, but I'm aware that elecs have different torque characteristics than 2-stroke glow motors. Thus the comments about higher pitch props seem to make sense. Like many of us, I'm sort of addicted to the scream of piped .60's, but I just got back from a warbird weekend with my newly-electric-powered P-51. I'll have to admit, there is a lure to the clean, quiet power. Prior to the conversion, I flew the plane with an OS .61 FS with Slim Line muffler. Being around 9 lbs, with 760 sq in of wing, it flew much like a pattern ship with out the pipe. With the elec setup, it really flies about the same. Trouble is, it depends on a 15-16 in dia prop - not very compatible with a ballistic, trike gear pattern ship. I'm half tempted to try the P7 with the setup mentioned above! I'm all for retro, but.......you can't stand in the same river twice. Maybe it's time for more blending of old and new! Dewey Newbold
Posted on: 10/14/2010 10:54 PM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Classic RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10069468

Hyperion Charger Question
Long time R/C'er. New to electrics. Converted my Hangar 9 .60 Mustang to elec and everything works well. (Tunringy .90 motor, Plush 80 ESC, 5000 ma, 6S pack). Hyperion AC/DC charger. When set to "Store" with one of my packs, the process reaches a point where the display alternates between "Store" and "BLC" (which I assume means balance). Current in/out remains at + or - 0.0 and the pack voltage remains the same. Problem is, the process then seems to continue indefinitely, rather than shifting to "END". I use the balance connector at all times so far, for charging, etc. It's as though the charger is stalled and having an issue balancing the pack. Any suggestions? Do I have a defective pack? Thanks in advance for any info.
Posted on: 10/10/2010 2:15 PM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Electric Training"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10059655

RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!
Just flew my first electric this last weekend. I converted my trusty Hangar 9 P-51 .60 from glow with O.S. .61 2S to electric power. Got to say, I'm impressed by certain aspects of it. At least makes me think about converting the P7, if you could get enough rpm on and 11x7 or 11x8 prop out of an electric setup. I'm very new to the electric game, though and have no idea if this is possible. I would definitely want tricycle retract gear. But then, "I like smoke and lightning - heavy metal thunder" Steppenwolf 1969. Overall, I'm a ProLine/Southern/Dave Brown retract fan. I know they're a bit more of a pain to install initially, but they have always worked very well for me. In the past, I always used a separate servo in the fuse for the nose gear. A little more weight, but you can partially compensate by using a mini/micro servo for the throttle. Really simplifies assembly out at the flying field. Yeah, the mechanism parts wear from vibration, but you can get spare parts from Dave Brown. Would require some work to install in the Hangar 9 P7 because the DB nosegear is firewall-mounted. They don't sell a belly-mount nose gear. Just recently, I visited Dave Brown's web site, and it indicated that the retract system is "temporarily out of stock". Hope this really is "temporary". Would hate to see this classic, Ron Chidgey-designed system disappear.
Posted on: 9/29/2010 11:03 PM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Classic RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10037044

RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!
Like a lot of you, I used pneumatic, mechanical, and elec retracts back in the day. I used Kraft electrics most of the time, and while they were bigger and heavier, they were very reliable and simple to operate UNTIL the advent of tuned pipes. It seems the pipe pushed the vibration frequency into the range where the motor and solder connections, etc. couldn't handle it any more. The nose gear would predictably quit after about 20-30 flights. I used to carry an extra unit in my flight box, all ready with strut, wheel, etc. to do a quick swap-out with. Finally got tired and retro-fitted a Southern (Dave Brown) nose gear in my P7 and left the Kraft mains in. That combo worked great until I finally dumb thumbed the plane into the ground. The Kraft nose unit mounted in a foam tape - lined box on the back side of the firewall. Yes, I balanced the prop, spinner, etc. Hopefully, the E-Flite's won't be subject to the same problem, being newer technology and belly-mounted instead of directly on the firewall. Time will tell. The Spring Airs worked well, except that you have to transport the plane with the gear down, which is a pain. And then there's the fun of pumping up the plane at the flying field. Finishing up another project I have to get off the bench before starting my new P7. Really anxious to get going on it!
Posted on: 9/27/2010 11:10 PM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Classic RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10032227

RE: Pro-Line Comp. Series to 2.4 GHZ
When an older radio such as the Kraft or PL is converted, are there any cosmetic changes to the transmitter? I'm assuming the RF module can be mounted inside and a different antenna is used. Can the short antenna be mounted in the stock location, or does it require another hole in the case?
Posted on: 9/23/2010 12:40 PM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Classic RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10022095

RE: Pro-Line Comp. Series to 2.4 GHZ
Interesting to hear about upgrading the older radios with 2.4 G. Below are the ones I have that I might consider upgrading. The ProLine is an early 1970 model, the Kraft Signature Series a late (about 1981) model, and the Futaba 9VAP is a pre-release unit from about 1989 (and currently my workhorse radio). They all work great on 6 meters, thanks to Tony at Radio South. He has maintained that ProLine since sometime in the late 1970's. I have some modified original ProLine rx's that are positive pulse compatible, and the Kraft is used with an 8FD narrow band FM rx from Kraft. I have several Futaba PCM and FM rx's that I use with the 9VAP.
Posted on: 9/20/2010 11:35 PM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Classic RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10016451

RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!
It is doable with the right kind of header. I think the plane looks better with the pipe running under the wing, but that's just a personal thing. Rear exhaust is definitely a plus during transport, although with the Dave Brown pipe mount and squeeze clamps, I haven't found removing the pipe a big problem. With a side mount, you can also convert easily to a muffler for SPA. With either setup, it's a great ship!
Posted on: 9/19/2010 11:23 PM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Classic RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10013862

RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!
It would be a lot of trouble to fit any rear exhaust engine in the P7. The P7 was not designed for a rear exhaust / enclosed pipe installation like the Bootlegger, Tiger Tail III, etc. The P7 is set up for a side-mounted, side exhaust engine. I remember seeing a P8 many years ago with a rear-ex engine with the cylinder canted downward, allowing the pipe to go under the wing. There might also be a special header available, or custom-made. I would simply choose a side port engine such as the Evolution, O.S., Webra, or Rossi .60. This plane is sleek and light enough to be plenty fast!
Posted on: 9/19/2010 6:09 PM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Classic RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10013175

RE: Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III
I have posted a shot of several vintage engines. Top left is the Enya .60 II/III which was Phil Kraft's weapon of choice during the glory days of the Kwik Fli III. Top right is a Lee/Veco .61 from the same period. These were "bypass-ported" engines. On the bottom row is an O.S. .61SF and a vintage Rossi .60. The O.S. and Rossi shown are both "Schnurle-ported" engines, and because of the port arrangement with ports fore and aft of the cylinder, they are physically longer. The calipers are set at the length of the longer engines and shown next to the older engines. Also pictured is a backplate style mount used on the Kwik Fli III, which were about 1/8 to 1/4 in. thick aluminum. You can see that if you use a Schnurle-ported engine and a later style mount, you will increase the length of the nose substantially, possibly affecting the appearance and balance of the plane. I would recommend sticking with a period-correct engine, or use a modern small-case engine such as the O.S. .55AX to maintain the original style of the airplane.
Posted on: 9/17/2010 10:39 PM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Classic RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10009915

RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!
For anyone still sitting on the fence about ordering one, I shot a few pics of mine to share. How H9 produces this level of completeness and quality for the price they do, is a mystery to me! Back in the "good 'ol days", you got an unprimed epoxy glass fuse, firewall, some balsa, and wing/stab cores for what I bet was about the same as H9's offering, if you compute the price from 1977 dollars to 2010 dollars! Not to bash the kit mfg's back then, just shows how far production technology has come!
Posted on: 9/17/2010 10:22 PM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Classic RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10009878

RE: Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III
Great choice if the size isn't a problem. One of my favorite engines from the past. More power than the old Enya III's and Veco's, not quite as much as the later Schnurle's. Starts, runs, and idles like a dream (as do most O.S.'s).
Posted on: 9/13/2010 11:42 PM by Author "RCDENT" in the forum "Classic RC Pattern Flying"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10000496