RE: Food for Thought: HC vice MS
[quote]ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy STL- [quote]Great ... so you agree Hoss has not told us anything we already knew. Hoss is at the same level as Mark Smith re what we know.[/quote] You need to read the bit in a previous post of mine to Bob [i]"Were you just not paying attention to the list of stuff from ..."[/i] [quote]Only one thing you can say about Mark, he's proven his record.[/quote] Oh, I see you are commenting on the plummeting membership numbers of his stint marketing the AMA. Yes, we do know that [u]one[/u] unalienable truth: Membership is diving while he is marketing. And his solution has taken members out of AMA (subsidizers) to build PPP(subsidized) [i]<oops, I guess we know 2 objectively measured quantities>[/i] If you have subjective wishfull thinking and guesses and interpretations to spin opinioned tales of glory they are just that: subjective opinion rather than objective quantities. [/quote] FIrst off kid, Mark's PPP program was an idea almost 3 years ago, hey what you know, right after the falloff of the AMA membership. How powerful is your crystal ball to say it's going to fail? You say it at least once a day since it was ever brought up. Apparently the PPP membership has only grown this and the 3 biggest names in RC toys have adopted it's standards. That my friend is a monumental windfall for the AMA ... thanks to Mark. Yes the program is subsidized, just like you and every other AMA member subsidizes their dues for programs and products which AMA gives to others that they dot not choose to use. How much money in insurance did you receive this year from an accident? None? Well others received your subsidized dues ... welcome to membership orgs.
Posted on: 10/16/2008 10:23 AM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8053972

RE: Is it okeydokey to choose not to vote in AMA election
[quote]ORIGINAL: MikeL Of course it's ok not to vote. If the membership thought the organization's leadership was inept and harmful to the hobby, more would vote. The apathy is a sign of acceptance. It's also a sign that the things which people in this forum get so overly passionate about really don't matter to the vast majority of those that are in this hobby. You people are the fringe. [/quote] EXACTLY, perfectly stated. Those that dues paying members that don't vote IMHO contribute more to the org than those that are on these forums and take the time to vote. I say those that think, those who should wine if they don't vote, obviously like to dab their noses into other people's personal choices. The real question is ... why do you think it should be your business as whether someone takes the time to vote? So you can say ... you didn't vote ... you shouldn't have a voice. Oh .... but you did pay your dues, but we'll have to forget about that now .... good grief. Hey wait ... maybe those all those US soldiers should just jump ship and come home. After all they are fighting for those that don't take the time to draw a weapon. We'll go back to formuing militias like the constitution says we can do, and let only the people that own a machine, have a right to voice their opinion. How Ironic. Oh ... but in reality ... it's nobody's business why someone votes or not, who cares. Enjoy YOUR magazine and YOUR AMA benefits, not someone elses political decisions. PS - I can't wait till KE collects all his data from this thread so we can find out what his point is. Must be raining in Texas on a Wednesday again. (You'll read about that in a the book).
Posted on: 10/16/2008 7:34 AM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8053542

RE: Is it okeydokey to choose not to vote in AMA election
[quote]ORIGINAL: Hossfly I voted it's Ok to not vote. That is a free person's right to choose and not mine to judge. OTOH one might peek at http://www.empowermentzone.com/one_vote.txt to decide if one vote is really of importance or simply myth. That is one reason that I run on a stated plank of objectives. I don't beg, or kiss babies. If you vote for my objectives I feel obligated to pursue them. If you vote otherwise, then that is your choice. An advantage of living in a free country, however those freedoms are drying up moreso each day because so many either do not vote or vote for a handsome face and a promise to fulfill their desires. Yep, it's still a free country. How long? Your choice. [/quote] Sorry Hoss, but you should verify your data before you make a political statement like that. Don't believe every thing you read on the web and every little email you read in your inbox. I mean how on earth could you have believed all falacies? I read the first one and said ... wait a second ... something is not right here. http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/onevote.asp
Posted on: 10/16/2008 6:24 AM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8053563

RE: Food for Thought: HC vice MS
[quote]If "Stimulate the growth of AMA by implementing various creative marketing programs " is not a good thing to say when Hoss says it, is it a brilliant strategy and a reason to vote for Mark when Mark says it? If this was ever so important to get specifics on, that leaving it vague is bad for a candidate (for Hoss), what are the specifics that Mark gave to not leave it as a bad thing to say? Where is a link to when Mark was asked to clear up this campaign poison phrase, lets see how detailed he got when(if) he took care of this horrible vagury to say (when it was thought Hoss said it) [/quote]Great ... so you agree Hoss has not told us anything we already knew. Hoss is at the same level as Mark Smith re what we know. Only one thing you can say about Mark, he's proven his record. Hoss, well he was fortunate enough in life to throw money at the problem for his club and his friends. Hoss also treats anyone that disagrees with him a notch above cockroach. Oh and THANK YOU Hoss for not taking the time, once again to avoid the tough ... err simple questions I've been asking. I'm sorry that one little person in New York City bothers you that much .. problem is that you have 150,000 people in this org you have to tolerate as well. If you are elected EVP will you answer my emails, well when I email DM he answers within 12 hours to this day. You sir need no only to withdrawl your ticket as EVP but your ticket as an AMA member. I've never once heard you say you did anything for this org that wasn't attached to you and your club and the property there you own.
Posted on: 10/16/2008 5:58 AM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8053540

RE: Food for Thought: HC vice MS
[quote]Hoss is talking about Muncie doing things to raise national level finances, [/quote]Exactly, he's doing "things", what are these "things". Corona took the time to draft a nice document and the AMA put it that online. What is this "thing" Hoss is talking about? [quote]STL, you really should wait for PPP to stop being a red ink anchor, [/quote]Terrific and fair enough I'll wait, but for now I'll support their decisions. However Hoss is running for a position now, an EC position. Should he wait as well or embrace and help support? Seems to me that Tower Hobbies and Horizon haven't waited to see results, they are now on board .... and the funny thing is ... so are you!
Posted on: 10/15/2008 10:56 AM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8051036

RE: Food for Thought: HC vice MS
So now you are saying: [quote]Grow and aid in securing flying sites for our clubs through creative financing of club-owned sites (insert: I have personally done that starting in 1996.) [/quote] And in another theard you claimed: [quote]ORIGINAL: Hossfly In my later years, I was able to get a good deal on 100 acres of land because I had cash in hand so to speak the seller had another note coming due of over $150,000.oo in another venture, and I knew he needed a quick cash infusion, so I got the 100 acres for $250,000.oo rather than the $400,000.oo he was asking for. That is using[b] financial leverage.[/b] [/quote] So that's it .... that's the creative financial plan? Cash is king? That's what you plan to introduce as a creative financing plan? Ha ..... come on Hoss, please don't tell me that putting cash into real estate, which makes that cash completely useless and illiquid is your new financial plan. Kid around and explain what it really is. Because I know you don't expect everyone to depend on a huge cash outlay and not some type of creative financing plan. So instead of "talking the talk" like you claim MS is doing .... why don't you explain this financial windfall you could have easily introduced as a member, much like those Corona paintball guys. Also you keep saying you're going to get this done and you're going to get that done ... but your not saying anything new or different. You haven't mentioned 1 new program you wish to introduce, just keep saying you'll get "it" done and fight against the AMA to restructure the org, whatever that means. MS got the BB program done and he got the PPP done. Are you trying to say that both of these programs contributed to the downfall of the AMA? Explain that one. The only thing I see you claiming here is that Mark Smith, with no other names mentioned like perhaps Dave Brown, contributed to the AMA's downfall in recent years. Please explain, because I know you might not answer my questions ..... but every living sould here is wondering what I'm thinking, there is no way they can't be. As far as I can see Mark got it done for the entire membership and you got it done for you own club and personal net worth. BTW have you donate that property to your club or are you still the deed holder.
Posted on: 10/15/2008 8:03 AM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8050548

RE: Election for AMA Executive Vice President
[quote]ORIGINAL: Kemosobie Settle down Stick. We need to see your posts when Mark wins. [/quote] EXACTLY! And wasn't Mark the self proclaimed leader and introducer of the PPP? Well seems to me if he wins, which I'm willing to bet (metaphorically speaking RCKen) never to ever post here again if he loses, the PPP's will win a lot more than their ability to vote .... they'll WIN contiued support for AMA's #1 focused product. PPP's have already won and they'll win even more, that's what I think a lot are most afraid of.
Posted on: 10/14/2008 7:13 PM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8049225

RE: Election for AMA Executive Vice President
[quote]I’d be a little more understanding of spending $200,000.00 if the AMA had set PPP model limits/guidelines, and the hobby market adapted their products to the mandate and wisdom of the AMA, rather than the other way around. [/quote] Looks like you have not heard and this is just the first year. Seems to me the AMA did their job and then some. Wonder what year 2 will look like. Errrr ... wait a second ... were trying to say that the AMA should have invented parkflyers??? http://www.modelaircraft.org/parkflyer/Legal_Aircraft.aspx Also Airhogs is about to ship 150,000 PF's with PPP Logo as well. Wonder what that is worth in real marketing dollars? Seems to me some of the biggest names in the industry are playing follow the leader. Because it's certainly not required to put a PPP logo on their models, take a wild guess as to why you think they are doing it.
Posted on: 10/14/2008 4:43 PM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8048789

RE: Why I'm Supporting Mark Smith
[quote]ORIGINAL: Kemosobie Why, that is your opinion. Mark will win. [/quote] Exactly! And not only will it confirm that things are really not as broken at the AMA as the conspiracy theorists always make others try to believe. I'm not for or against Mark, I just know he'll win.
Posted on: 10/13/2008 6:55 AM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8044178

RE: Magazine ad rates
[quote]ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy STL says [quote]Exaclty and the AMA has been changing prices both forwards and backwards. In fact right now it's 30% less to purchase a full page spread, then it was 3 years ago ... why do you think that is? Because sales have slowed down. When sales speed up, their raise rates again.[/quote] That is a claim that the rates are set by ad sales However, Mark S says [quote]This includes making sure that our advertising rates are inline with industry standards as well as responsibly managing all of the expenses associated with publication[/quote] Which tosses STLs theory out the window and replaces it with the actual reasoning they raised the rates: Arbitrarily heavyhanded rate hike because they saw others were charging more and wanted to charge more too.... and that last bit about expenses responsibility means to cut the cash hemorrage a bit (aka run more profitably <aka less lossfully>) Quick show of hands, who thinks STLs reason is why Muncie just raised rates, and who thinks Mark S's reason is why. It certainly is within reason that MarkS could be wrong, STL, are you saying MarkS is wrong? <edit+> STL, just how much is the Fullpage that you say is 30%less 'right now'? [/quote] Touche! Yes, KE in this case Mark shows good intention, but looking at competitors pricepoints don't mean anything now. Aligning your pricepoints only matter when your first starting up, after that, you can only price your products at a price that sells, this is why you don't see WalMart clothing products on Saks Fifth Ave shelves. However Mark's comment is more realisitc, then Hoss'. Go back and copy/paste DM point of view of where/why pricepoints are set in MA, he noted that before and he was dead on and that's why he's President and both Hoss and Mark are running to be his flunkie (as per Hoss). In re pricing ... look it up if you care that much. Call them for historical rates, give yourself a little due dilligence on your end.
Posted on: 10/12/2008 6:52 PM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8042669

RE: Magazine ad rates
[quote]I personally think that the MA should bring a profit, all I am saying is that in order to do so through the raising of rates, whomever is in charge needs to be careful that they can back up the increase with an equal amount of results. If they can't, then the increase will lead to a mass exodus that will trigger a sharp decline in revenue which usually is followed by a drastic cut in ad rates to get the advertisers back. So what started as a perceived step forward, ends up as a slide down the slippery slope[/quote]Exaclty and the AMA has been changing prices both forwards and backwards. In fact right now it's 30% less to purchase a full page spread, then it was 3 years ago ... why do you think that is? Because sales have slowed down. When sales speed up, their raise rates again. If MA decided to raise rates now during an economic turndown, the only thing that would happen is that sales would slow down and advertisers would go elsewhere, just like Hoss would want. Problem is that he doesn't realize that MA would lose even more money. You start realizing these things when you spend your own hard earned dollars on advertising.
Posted on: 10/12/2008 5:53 PM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8042534

RE: Magazine ad rates
[quote]At the end of the day if I were purchasing for this type of product (rc models, accessories, radios, whatever) I would use an online product called Whoscalling.com. This enables you to tack a different 800 number in each ad that will piggy back on to your incoming phone line. You can then run about 40 different reports that will show which ad produced the call, when it came in, what the call duration was, which part of which city it came from (great for sending out bulk mail later if you find a good hot spot) ETC. [/quote]EXACTLY! And MA uses the reverse technique to quantify their prices for their ads, exactly! All rags use this formula.
Posted on: 10/12/2008 11:40 AM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8041655

RE: Do you work hard to create RC products and advertise in MA, beware
[quote]ORIGINAL: Bob Mitchell A couple of you missed what STL did, as well. Horrace states that the rates should be twice that of publications with half the distribution. There's truth to that, although I'm not sure it's a direct proportion. In any event the circulation should support higher rates. STL took that and converted it to a doubling of current rates. The one doesn't necessarily flow from the other. It's all dependant on what the actual rates are, and no one has posted definitive information on that. Lord, I can't believe I'm defending something that Horrace said. [X(] [/quote]First off Bob pricing is a science, not a guess, where in many cases, quantative pricing models are built to find the right pricepoint, based on what your customers are willing to pay and most importantly last month/quarters/years sales, not what you can pull out of their pockets. Business theories do not break down at not for profits, it's the same. NFP just don't have to pay taxes. MA has raised and lowered their rates over the years ... ask me how I know. Also and I guess none of you understand this but in advertising you can simply charge double by ASKING (not demanding) your customer to purchase more real estate. Larger ads have a bigger impact and you get more bang for the buck. Heck ask them to buy a 2 page spread if they have the money. What's the difference between asking your customers to spend more to get more exposure or demanding them to pay twice as much for the same spot or shop elsewhere. Well, one you are making a better sales move and helping your customer gain exposure. The other one is just basically asking him to give you the money or take a walk. Most will walk, there are more options. If you double same size ad rates, that's ok as long as you DO NOT demand it, however the ONLY thing you'll see is customers leaving and having them buy smaller ads, but the revenue will not double ... it can't it's no guess. Companies have marketing budgets and they will only spend what they HAVE not what you can get out of them. Why can't people understand this ... this is how marketing works and always has worked. Also the ad rates are posted online. If you want to see them look them up. I don't expect most here to understand my OP. This post is aimed to those that work hard to deliever great RC products and those candidates willing to change the system for no logical reason, other than a political statement. When Hoss gets in office DM will give him a lesson on pricing, which he's already done here on RCU.
Posted on: 10/12/2008 9:08 AM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8041200

RE: Magazine ad rates
[quote]ORIGINAL: The Toolman [quote]Mailing costs an printing an etc, I still say they have $28 in it per year per member. From being around the mag biz back in 2002 I don't believe there is any way they print an mail that mag out for $18 year. Its a nice mag with the expensive shiny paper(costs extra) an lotsa color pages in it (costs extra again) My charge is $58 a year, the wifes as a add on is $30 with no mag or $58 if she wants the mag also Thats $28 diff there. Either somebody is lying or some sort of creative bookeeping thats leads everybody to think it is $18 per year per member If the $18 figure is correct, why isn't the wifes membership $40 per year instead of $30 to reflect the $18 charge they claim the mag costs They are probably skimming the extra 10 bucks to use for something else IMO I still think something stinks here, no matter what anybody says. When ya let a few people in charge of a lot a peoples money, somebody is gonna get screwed. Look to D.C. to see what I mean. edit to addaig, numerous banks, and all the other low life slime ball crooks on wall street an anybody else associated with'em [/quote] TO ALL- When is somebody going to answer this? I have brought it up twice in the last year an yet to get any comment to speak of on it [/quote] ME ME!! Does that $28 per member conspiracy theory inclue the 1.1 million that MA takes in advertising? In re mailing, DM already explained it. AMA is NFP, they pay pennies per copy to ship.
Posted on: 10/12/2008 8:11 AM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8041251

RE: Magazine ad rates
[quote]it's tailored with content specifically for American Motorcyclist Association members and would not work on the newsstand. MA on the other hand could make the transition with very few changes.[/quote]BOOYAB! Sorry ... but your AMA Motorcyclists marketing gurus understand the concept of exclusitivity, so does the AMA and so do most, if not almost all membership based mags. It doesn't matter if you manipulate the magazine to fit the rack, the only thing you'll do is manipulate the membership to make them feel their "official publication" is no longer their own, but now everyone's. Read the sentence under the title of Model Aviation, what does it say? Like I said, if only half the members passed on their rag, that would accomplish more than every rag shop in America combined as most RC rags have a first market circulation no greater than 75k. Could and would Barnes and Noble distribute if they could .... of course ..... does the AMA know this .... of course. In this case the AMA is serving their membership, no different than your AMA serving theirs. Pass it on, mission accomplished, believe in the system. Oh and Bob Mitchell, here is a link to AOPA Pilots distribution report, it claims circulation only to membership and subscibers, no single sales channels. [link=http://www.aopaadvertising.org/AOPA2008Site/pdf/Dec07ABC.pdf]LINK[/link] Not calling you a liar, I've just never seen AOPA Pilot in any rag shop including B&N. Also take a look at their rate card, $14,000 for 1 time full page spread. That's 12 times more than MA charges for 2.5 times greater circulation. Why ... they can get it ... they never demanded it .... they charge it because that money is available from the companies that advertise as full scale flying has MONSTERS in business and of course a lot of mom and pops whose parts alone sometimes start in the thousands.
Posted on: 10/12/2008 8:09 AM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8041206

RE: Magazine ad rates
[quote]ORIGINAL: Blue_Sky [quote]ORIGINAL: combatpigg Let's have a show of hands: Who is going to lose that warm fuzzy feeling if they see Model Aviation at a magazine rack? Who doesn't care, or [better yet] would like to see MA on display? [/quote] I've already lost the warm and fuzzy feeling and it's a great question because I have a hunch even those working on the magazine have lost it as well. At this point the AMA would better serve the membership by making the magazine available to a wider audience. If the AMA wants to expand their influence they might as well not beat around the bush in the bunker of their own making - get out there and promote. Be proactive rather than reactive. [/quote] When you say AMA do you mean the member, who are the AMA, or those guys that push pencils in Muncie for the AMA? I agree, the AMA should expose themselves, this means the members. Does your Motorcycle AMA distribute their rag wide? My other orgs don't either.
Posted on: 10/11/2008 10:16 PM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8040486

RE: Do you work hard to create RC products and advertise in MA, beware
[quote]ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy SO is the problem that Hoss wants to raise the ad rates, or that Muncie just did without Hoss there. <You guys do recall that MarkS said they did so in Jan, right?> o So STL, how do you feel about the rates DID get raised without Hoss in Muncie, rather than speculation on if they will. I ask in light of the opposition we got from you when folks here said last year we need to raise the rates. Did Muncie do right, raising the rates in Jan like we were saying to, or do you think Muncie made a mistake raising the rates earlier this year. Do you think Muncie hates small business too now, cause they did raise rates? [/quote] In the last few years the AMA has both raised and lowered ad rates accordingly on their rate sheet, which is based on sales. Hoss now just wants to simply "demand" to pay twice as much as the other rags, or they can shop elsewhere. No I don't believe Muncie hates small business, I think Hoss does, he suggested they pay twice as much or find a spot in RC Report.
Posted on: 10/11/2008 10:13 PM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8040482

RE: Magazine ad rates
[quote]1. The current mission of the AMA regarding Model Aviation magazine is to justify their existence. Can we agree? [/quote]Absolutely, it's the first and last reason, no doubt, well said, however. You're a member of another AMA, do they put their rag on most newsstands? I would suspect not, but I'm not sure. Well I have yet to this day to see a AOPA rag on the rack, EAA too someone said AOPA's out there, but I've never seen it and I've been a member for quite some time as well as EAA. There is a reason you don't see most membership periodicals on newstands (wide) and that number one reason ..... here it is ..... exclusitivity. The AMA is a service provider of services, we know what they are, no need to rattle them off. However they are also membership based and with membership comes priviliages. The AMA has to maintain a level of exclusitivity to it's members, like they are part of something and it's theirs. It's all part of their sales fluff, yes fluff, even though the AMA is a NFP and service provider they still have to maintain a level of sales no different than what McDonalds uses to lure children. Sure they'll put some rags in hobby shops, but they won't distribute wide or else they have totally lost that "warm fuzzy feeling" of exclusitivity with their members. Anyone can get it. This is why the AMA makes the rags available, but they don't push them wide or else so much for an "exclsive" membership base, now it's just everyone. The best way to get these rags distributed is for members to takes vows they will pass them along. If only half the membership passed the magazine every month the circulation would be more than Barnes and Noble and every other rag shop could sell .... combined. But which method had a bigger impact to THE HOBBY, not the cashflow. [quote]2. The AMA has shifted from serving the membership to serving itself. Can we agree? [/quote]We do not. I see this posted day in and day out and I still have yet to hear how on earth they are self providing? The AMA is not for profit .... who is it providing? The AMA only serves members, I can't see it any other way. Sorry but I just don't buy all the conspiracies, because frankly I have yet to this day hear a member complain they didn't get exactly what they were promised. Seriously where are the real complaints? They are not here, they are all made up hogwash. The AMA delivers and that's that. Have they changed? Yes, it's 2008 now, things are different. But when Muncie starts taking dividends, then I'll wonder, but for now, nope, don't buy it.
Posted on: 10/11/2008 8:46 PM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8040179

Do you work hard to create RC products and advertise in MA, beware
From the new potential EVP. [quote]Hossfly Any magazine with twice the distribution, any mag sold only to subscribers, most of which have no option, and any magazine that only goes to those already vested in the subject should be able to demand at least twice the ad $$$ of the next choice. So an increase in ad rates is the prime factor. Since some of our Directors already hobnob regularly with big boy players in the business, then that should be an easy task. If the Mom/Pop Hobby people need cheap ads, there is always RC Report standing by.[/quote] If you build hobby products and in most cases, bust your rump doing so, watch out if you spend dollars in MA. One of the EVP candidates would like to "demand" to double your ad rates, for realistically no reason, other then to "get out of the red" even when said organization doesn't have to pay ANY taxes and is built on subsidized income. Although that is certainly a new clever way to increase advertising rates. But don't worry, the potential EVP is touting that you'll have other channels to choose from, which is surprising seeing that most the mom and pop ads are the most profitable ads in MA and any other magazine on the market, strange. I know there are not a lot of manufacturers that frequent this forum, but as someone who has spent of a lot of ad dollars across multiple RC ad channels, I've never heard any sales person ever tell me they now had to "demand" twice as much for an ad or go shop elsewhere, just because they need more money to pipe into their tax free, member subsidized organization. Advertiser beware and think before you vote for this candidate.
Posted on: 10/11/2008 8:19 PM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8039978

RE: Magazine ad rates
[quote]ORIGINAL: combatpigg KE, maybe we should ask some guys who represent those hobby industry companies if raising ad rates is a good idea? [;)] [/quote]You don't need to ask them, all you have to do is raise ad rates, that's how you ask them. When you see sales dropping due to lack of sales, you stop raising rates. That's how it's done, that's how it's always been done and that's how it will be done in the future. Did any of you guys take high school level business courses?
Posted on: 10/11/2008 6:03 PM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8039809

RE: Magazine ad rates
OK no more repeating ... proof is in the pudding. You can get any rate card from any magazine online. As you can clearly see with MA and the rest, the more you buy, the less it costs in real estate. Yes, supply and demand based. End of that discussion. Oh and why do you think the numbers are odd, don't end in 99 ... because these prices are based on last quarters sales, that's the ONLY flippin way to price out ad space. Hoss' quesswork on where prices should go has nothing to do with it, nothing. Tell me kid have you every purchased ad space before ... do you have any practical experience or are you just touting?
Posted on: 10/11/2008 10:48 AM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8038940

Why do you want to slow down the progress at the AMA
Seeing you want to basically shut down the magazine and/or get rid of the mom and pop advertisers who bust their butts to be able to put a small ad inside and also fight against the progress of the PPP and on and on an on .... why are you looking to slow down great progress that Muncie has finally started to bring back to the AMA? What do you have against people from the north who work hard to accomplish great things?
Posted on: 10/11/2008 7:53 AM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "Executive Vice President Candidate - Horrace Cain"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8038655

RE: Magazine ad rates
[quote]but I strongly suspect that advertisers who buy several pages of space are paying the same per inch rate as someone who buys a small fraction of a page.[/quote]You would suspect to be wrong. They most certainl pay A LOT less for bulk space in an ad. The rack rates for MA and any other magazine are published online, look them up. You will clearly see that smaller ads cost a heck of a lot more per sq in in RC and every other magazine on the planet. Why do you keep wondering about this .... just to say it? Look it up. [quote]In EITHER case it's cost that could be reduced if MA had higher revenues, regardless of the source. (Or lower costs.)[/quote]It's real easy to simply say that MA could simply charge more money in ads and heck maybe you'll win a campaign if people buy that theory .... but everyone wants world peace too and that also is a pipe dream. When MA starts charging a fair subscription rate, about $20 more than your subsidized dues, then you'll prolly see profitability .... until then read it and pass it along.
Posted on: 10/11/2008 7:43 AM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8038641

RE: Magazine ad rates
[quote]$210,177 Supply Souvenir & Merchandizing Sales 2005 $126,280 Supply Souvenir Costs STL, are you saying this NFP violated something by turning a profit on selling crud? [/quote]Absolutely not, don't put words in my mouth. Who cares how much they made in revenue, the bottom line numbers do the talking, not the line items that yourself and Hoss love to point out. The AMA is a mission provider and when they make profits to the people that do most of the legwork then let me know. Why are you constantly trying to look for a conspiracy in the AMA every single day of your life? No, 41 year old kid epoxy, the AMA is not corrupt and they've never proven to be.
Posted on: 10/11/2008 7:35 AM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8038315

RE: Magazine ad rates
[quote]STL mentioned that an online AMA magazine might fail. FAIL? You mean it wont overspend by ONE MILLION DOLLARS! Here is a reality check: If AMA went electronic, would it be a failure if it cost AMA $500k more than it took in? Or would that a $500k boon for Muncie compared to the $1mil MA "fails" by each year. [/quote]No, the failure would be 150,000 AMA members would not receive a hard copy magazine to potentially pass along to a boy scout, that's the failure. AMA doesn't look at bottom line profit, they look at providing a mission, period. They are NOT FOR PROFIT, figure out what that means and you'll see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Posted on: 10/10/2008 8:11 PM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8037481

RE: Magazine ad rates
[quote]In hobby magazines, I see no reason to discount large blocks of advertising on a page, in fact I think that large blocks of space [because of their sales impact] should pay a premium.[/quote]Huh, dude you really need to take the time to call some of these magazines. Of course there are discounted rates for larger ads and full page spreads in all magazines, it's not a premium at all. In fact the smaller the ad the more relative costs per square inch. [quote]Ads like this will not read well or sell as well presented any other way than on a one or two page spread. [/quote]Very true, this is why all magazines give incentives to increase your ad size, you increase your ad, you get a better price. It's volume based. Supply and demand in advertising ... that's it ... that's the formula. [quote]He points out that our fully subsidized magazine has inadvertently managed to contribute to the failure of some pretty nice magazines, by not raising the bar high enough for ad rates.[/quote]He's DEAD wrong, dead as can be. The money comes from those who want to advertise. Magazines prices are ONLY set by those willing to spend, this is why mags like EAA CAN CHARGE 4 TIMES AS MUCH, they have a large audience willing to spend it, has nothing to do with them setting prices. If this theory was true then more people would advertise across more magazines ... what don't people understand about this? MA and AMA increases revenue for all magazines and retail outlets for creating product awareness ... period. Hoss is very very wrong.
Posted on: 10/10/2008 4:27 PM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8036893

RE: Magazine ad rates
[quote]I don't know how well received an online version [of MA] would be by advertisers, but RCU doesn't seem to be doing so badly? [/quote]You also don't see RCU creating a print based periodical as well and there is a reason for that too, the same one why MA is standoffish about going online. DM already explained why the AMA cannot go online at this time and it's due to the failure rate to those that have already attempted it in the past. Online advertising would be a whole new ball game and HIGHLY competitive one at that.
Posted on: 10/10/2008 3:00 PM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8036697

RE: Magazine ad rates
[quote]So, some feel that MA is already charging all it possibly can for ad space. Is this notion based on any past efforts to raise the rates? Or is this just a hunch? [/quote]There is no hunch, ad rates are supply and demand based only. If MA moves rates up, that doesn't change anything, you'll just lose the amount of space in the magazine to companies that can't afford it or just change the relative size of their ad. MA have 0 control over marketing budgets. The budgets are set by the individual companies. Every month MA knows where to stick their prices based on previous month's sales ... that's it ... that's the equation. Same with newspapers, billboards, aero-ads and every other ad based mechanism on the planet. Private sector has nothing to do with it ... advertisers do not see AMA as a private, for stock, publicly held or any other type of company, they see the MA as an outlet to visual impressions only.
Posted on: 10/10/2008 2:03 PM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8036554

RE: Magazine ad rates
[quote]ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy Thanx for doing the legwork on that Mongo wait a sec, are both those price tables in Mongo's post for MA? [b]STL[/b] [quote]whereas AMA is filled with about 2-3 players and 10,000 mom and pop shops[/quote] <sigh> Just like Bob, you say there are only 3 advertizers that are not mom&pop. Name these 3 real players, so we can all know all the other companies you consider Mom&Pop. For example, given Hanger9, Greatplanes, Tower, HobbyLobby which one is the Mom&Pop opperation, since there are only 3 in all of MA. Perhaps you could go thru MA ad by ad and actually count out the 1/3page or greater Mom&Pops vs real companies. Or would that be an undue burden on you, since you dont even get MA to know what is in it this month/year. If you guys would make reasonable statements, I wouldnt have to do this all the time. [/quote] Reasonable statements? Well KE if you would like to enter the RC business and spend your own dollars in advertising, we wouldn't have to constantly explain to you how it all works. You know who the real players are, but my statements are facts based on experience. Anyone is welcome to disprove this theory of ad rates ... be my guest.
Posted on: 10/10/2008 10:47 AM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8036132

RE: Magazine ad rates
[quote]ORIGINAL: Skaluf Model Aviations ad rates run very close to the rest of the model aviation magazines. The rates you quote would be VERY high for this industry. Anyone, for the most part, can request ad rate cards from magazines. [/quote] Close yes, cheaper no and I have been involved in advertising in every RC mag. MA is the most expensive rag I've ever advertised in or had my customers advertise. There is not 1 RC rag that won't move their prices by up 50% or more from their rack rate. MA does not budge. So go ahead and plaster rates cards from other mags on the thread ... but in reality you can cut those advertised prices in half. Also if you want to compare apples to apples, the EAA magazine ad rates about about 4 times as much as MA and they have the EXACT same membership as the AMA. Why ... the EAA's industry has hundreds of real players, whereas AMA is filled with about 2-3 players and 10,000 mom and pop shops. The only way for MA to stay in business is to be able to accommodate these mom and pops, otherwise you aer stuck with 2-3 advertisers with real money. Hoss has been going on for years how he is going to "reform" ad prices. Problem is nobody has a say in it except for the people who pay to advertise and this is no different than any other industry. No matter where you put ad prices it will only be relative to those that can afford it. Supply and demand has been the driving force of advertising since cavemen were writing on walls, Hoss is not going to change anything.
Posted on: 10/10/2008 8:33 AM by Author "STLPilot" in the forum "AMA Discussions"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8035822