RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?
Howdy gents. Been awhile since I last posted. Here's a good one. I am in the process of installing eflite electric retracts in my already highly modified F-20. Just getting started literally tonight, and I posted some pictures of what madness I get into when bored. I had seriously considered doing this some time ago, but the Hangar 9 Jackal was temporarily the plane to have these retracts. Well I don't like the Jackal. Not that fast, too heavy and not very maneuverable - it high speed stalls in anything but turns the size of Rhode Island. I almost lost it twice because of this. Anyway, I thought that this F-20 with all of the mods I already made (see earlier posts) would be phenominal with retracts. And if the already zippy OS 55 wasn't enough, I can always put my Jett muffler on it to turn a 10.5x6 or 10x7 APC prop at 16,000. That should make this puppy just short of a rocket ship. I can only hope it doesn't disintegrate at what I expect to be over 140 mph. If this works out, I'll get another one and do all the mods and then some to prepare it for near sonic speeds like better hinges and a direct linked servo for every surface. I have already tried setting the ailerons to work as flaperons which worked fine but wasn't needed at normal weight, but flaperons should tame the moderate (12 oz) weight increase (if needed at all). I post more pics as I go. You can see in the attached pics that I simply added a plate to the front end, just short of the firewall. I left enough room to fit my Perry Pump. The full tank will go over the wing by moving the throttle and nosewhell servos aft a bit. One advantage is that there will be no CG shift with fuel burn. More to come... Cheers, Mike
Posted on: 9/18/2012 8:08 PM by Author "Sygy00" in the forum "Extreme Speed Prop Planes"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11232974

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
I had similar issues with my Jackal. Had to cut the fuselage framing to clear the elevator horns, and then add some ply strips higher up to regain the necessary strength. I also had to slightly oval the fuselage pin holes so the wings would fit. I would also suggest that you throw out all of those dinky little screws and upsize all to #4 sheetmetal screws as those small screws will not hold for long. I stripped out most of them because you can't even feel when they tighten up. Although the plane is indeed fast, I find that mine will high speed snap roll to the left if I pull too hard in a turn (and not all that hard). I tried to use a wing incidence meter to see if I had a warped or misaligned wing, but so far I don't see it. This makes it hard to fly at speed since all I can do is a fast pass followed by a very long radius turn with very careful use of elevator. Fast is cool, but after a few passes I want to do more.
Posted on: 9/4/2012 1:34 PM by Author "Sygy00" in the forum "Extreme Speed Prop Planes"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11217302

RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?
I don't really know if it is much faster than stock as that depends a lot on the motor, but it is faster than any other fixed gear plane at my airfield with the OS55AX, 11x6 apc prop, Macs muffler, and climb rate is awesome. I didn't mention this before, but I also trimmed back the fake intakes to reduce drag. It does move quite well! I am also thinking about installing retracts, but there isn't much room for the nosewheel. If I try this I'll buy a new one, install the fuel tank under the canopy and use a fuel pump to feed the engine. I've done this before, using a "uniflow" type line system to keep the higher tank from flooding the engine - works great. I just got too many airplane options right now and need to pick one. I did get a few more flights of the Jackal in and it flew great. The lower flap setting combined with wing fences and aileron-rudder interconnect allowed me to do quite a few greaser landings right on the centerline in a stiff crosswind. To me it hasjust a little too high wing loading, and another mod I am considering is enlarging the wing. In fact, I'm staring at the plane right this moment figuring how to do that and I will consider even building a new one from scratch. Mike
Posted on: 6/13/2012 6:55 PM by Author "Sygy00" in the forum "Extreme Speed Prop Planes"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11117428

RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?
Cap3Der The plane is even more responsive and maneuverable than the original. Don't forget that I added wing fences that prevent tip stall. See my earlier posts for all mods.
Posted on: 5/24/2012 7:31 PM by Author "Sygy00" in the forum "Extreme Speed Prop Planes"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11093810

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
Finally got to fly my Jackal after about 2 months for various reasons. All the mods I made seem to work great. The plane handled much better and even though the wind was 10-15 and gusty crosswind, I was able to grease it in right on the centerline time after time. In particular the aileron to rudder mix with flaps down made landing corrections much better, and the extended cord elevators cured what I thought was a little too little pitch authority. Unfortunately on the third flight the canopy hatch blew off at low speed. I haven't even installed the tuned muffler yet, so top speeds are moderate at best. This is very disappointing for a $300 kit - canopy hatch failure after just 6 flights. It looks like the front ply frame with the dowel simply separated from the plastic. Of course I initially found that the dowel wasn't even glued into the frame when I opened the kit. Anybody else have this happen? Has H9 replaced this for anyone? I will build my own hatch later but want another to keep it flying until I do. Mike
Posted on: 5/21/2012 5:56 PM by Author "Sygy00" in the forum "Extreme Speed Prop Planes"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11089539

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
flybodale54, If you look at my post on page 53 you can see pics of the e-flite electric retracts installed. I used the 25-46 size and they work just fine. The nosewheel was a drop in to the existing beams, but I had to reinforce the inside a bit. Was easy. Mike
Posted on: 4/12/2012 7:46 PM by Author "Sygy00" in the forum "Extreme Speed Prop Planes"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11039725

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
Haven't flown mine either since way back when, and have not tried the new mods at all. Waiting for good weather. It's awful windy around here in springtime. Mike
Posted on: 4/4/2012 4:21 PM by Author "Sygy00" in the forum "Extreme Speed Prop Planes"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11028494

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
Hey Joe, Glad your Jackal flew well. I would be curious about how you squeezed the OS 65 in the Jackal as I considered doing the same thing. Did you change the engine mount or somehow use the one provided? Some photos of the engine without the cowl would be interesting, including any issues or problems you might have had getting it installed. I am still considering that option if I don't get what I want with the OS55. I would appreciate your advice on this. I also used the e-flite gear, but the smaller 24-46 size, which actually seems just fine and is only slightly smaller than the 60-120 size. We'll have to see how they hold up. As mentioned in earlier posts, I feel the same as you that the Jackal could use more elevator authority. I can't increase mine as the control surfaces hit hard just at the low rate throws. Moments ago, however, I just finished extending the elevator cord by 3/8" - just enough to make a difference, but hopefully not too much to court with flutter. See pics. Oh, I also wanted to ask you how you got the decals off. Did you just peel them off or use some sort of solvent? Mike
Posted on: 3/14/2012 10:01 PM by Author "Sygy00" in the forum "Extreme Speed Prop Planes"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11000576

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
Daryl, I saw where others in this forum had the same problem with the tanks, and I have had the same problem with the same style tank on other planes. Someone suggested that we cut the nibble off the tank so the stopper could be inserted far enough to expand inside the tank. I did exactly this - see photo. You can see that the stopper is actually compressed on the outside the tank, meaning it had to expand inside to do this. Unfortunately, others have had this tank split, and removing the nipple won't improve those chances, but at least it won't just pop out. Mike
Posted on: 3/12/2012 7:22 PM by Author "Sygy00" in the forum "Extreme Speed Prop Planes"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10997799

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
Thanks for the info Terry, I was wondering how others like flying this plane and how they think it handles. I typically fly very responsive planes, and although I don't expect the Jackal to match those, I am used to a lot more pitch authority than the Jackal provides. I am somewhat infamous for experimenting with all of my planes and most of my mods are simply "because I can". Check out my highly modified Phoenix F-20 in the same-titled section of this forum. When I started building the Jackal the first thing I noticed was the apparent lack of sufficient structure behind the firewall. I was quite appalled, considering the power and speed to be expected with a tuned muffler. I also pulled and twisted the nose and was not happy. What I did was add full bay 1/32 ply doublers to both sides and bottom of the tank area right up to the firewall, then added hard 1/2 tri-stock in all corners. I pre-checked to make sure these didn't interfere with the tank. This made quite a difference in stiffness and added very little weight. You might try this if you can dry off the fuel in that area. As you mentioned also, I do find it a bit hard to steer as there isn't quite enough weight on the nosewheel. Hard to fix that. Good flyin' Mike
Posted on: 3/11/2012 7:36 PM by Author "Sygy00" in the forum "Extreme Speed Prop Planes"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10996221

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
I finally got to fly my Jackal last week. I don't have the Jett muffler on yet, so speed is nothing to brag about. Electric retracts with steering pushrod work great, and it flies very smooth. Even though this plane is rather heavy for its size, I was able to perform some very large loops and knife edge flight is no problem. I did find that this plane exhibits some dutch roll on landing, due to adverse yaw from the ailerons, which is typical of large turbine jets. Sooooo, I mixed in some aileron-to-rudder when the flaps are full down. I let you know how this works out. I also found that I was able to land more easily on half flap rather than full, and the elevator control was much more positive. One person noted that the elevator is in the wake of the flaps and might be experiencing poor airflow, and I should consider less flaps. I reduced my flap settings to about 20 deg and 30 deg and will try that out next time. It was also a little hazy the day I flew, and when the plane was decending for landing I literally couldn't see those thin white wings. I wraped the red color around the top of the airfoil to about 1-3/8 inches, but only on the outer half of each wing. This should present something of a "barber pole" (for those that remember such things) when landing to provide some contrast. Kinda scary not to see if the wings are level when landing. I also permanently added the wing fences and also added strakes to the intakes just above the wings. I've used these before for other reasons, but here I am hoping to improve pitch sensitivity without getting unstable. They should also create vortices that help keep the flow better attached behing the flaps, and increase the lift on the inboard part of the wing. I really do believe that (for my taste) the elevators are just a tad small for the large pitch inertia of this airplane. Next step will be to widen the elevator cord. You may have noticed that I am not just a speed junkie. I also want extreme manueverability and excellent low speed handling too (I just want it ALL). See pics of tweaks. Can't wait to fly it again Mike
Posted on: 3/11/2012 3:47 PM by Author "Sygy00" in the forum "Extreme Speed Prop Planes"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10995886

RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?
The main gear as designed is very far behind the CG, much farther than is necessary and it only makes takeoff rather "jumpy", and makes the airplane "plop" down on the nosegear on landing (at least mine did). The new location is about 1.5" behind the CG and makes for very smooth takeoffs and landings. I can now hold the nose off the runway on landing and put it down when I want, and it rotates just slightly before it lifts off making for a really nice takeoff. The addition to the horizontal stab was to better match conventional proportions between wing and stab. The addition to the vertical stab and dorsal fin was just for looks!
Posted on: 2/29/2012 3:53 PM by Author "Sygy00" in the forum "Extreme Speed Prop Planes"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10982139

RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?
Hi Quickturn, I simply had another canopy on hand and, with some cutting a trimming, fitted it over the existing canopy. Don't even remember where that canopy came from. Many of my mods were to make this look a tad more like an F-5/20 and I think the canopy really helps this as the original just doesn't quite get it. The wing fences cured all tendencies toward tip stall, even with flaperons down (only about 10-15 deg). I can fly at full up elevator at idle and just mush down. And I have enough elevator to pull a VERY tight loop. One other thing I did and forgot to mention is that I moved the fuel tank as far aft as I could get it and installed a Perry pump to feed the engine. This works really well and reduces CG shift with fuel burn.
Posted on: 2/28/2012 9:03 PM by Author "Sygy00" in the forum "Extreme Speed Prop Planes"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10980917

RE: PHOENIX MODELS F-20 TIGERSHARK ?
Howdy, I just noticed this thread. Since I have a (heavily) tweaked F-20 I thought I'd share my experience with it. I've had it for 3 years and have been modifying here and there. Here is a summary of what it is like now: OS55AX with 10.63x6 (cut down 11x6) prop, Macs muffler, turns 12,900 on the ground. Clipped wings (about 4" each side), and added missle rails (just for looks and removeable). Enlarged the horizontal stab by adding to the leading edges and tips (about 20%). Enlarged the vertcial fin also by adding to leading edges and tip (about 25%), and added tri-stock at the base. Tapered the ailerons a tad towards the tip. Installed a new longer canopy. Added airfoiled pants to all landing gear wires. Added wing fences - this dramatically improved low speed handling. Reinforced the firewall with fiberglass and tri-stock and 1/32 ply along the fuse sides. Dramatically reinforced the main landing gear ribs and relocated the mains about 3" foward. Recalculated the true neutral point and balanced the plane accordingly. First flight before mods and CG per instructions was a near disaster - waaaay tail heavy. Weighs about 6 lbs empty. Rigged both ailerons to work as flaperons - about 10-15 deg down max, but very effective. Recovered white areas with red Ultra-Coat. Wow, I guess I hadn't realised how much I've tweaked this plane. Wonderful flying airplane, very fun. Radar clocked in a shallow dive at 115 mph with fixed gear! Debated with myself whether to buy another and attempt to install retracts, or go with the H9 Jackal. Well, I went with the Jackal, but it's a heavy plane. It's only got 2 minutes flying time, but I'm already looking at tweaks for it. In any case, I just had a ball with the F-20 and although it is not flyable at the moment, it can be made so in a heartbeat if the Jackal doesn't pan out. I attached a few pics. Cheers
Posted on: 2/28/2012 6:18 PM by Author "Sygy00" in the forum "Extreme Speed Prop Planes"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10980733

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
Has anyone done any significant "customizing" of their Jackal - appearance wise? I am big on doing this to all my planes and I want to add my touch. I've already painted in part of the canopy and added wing strakes, but I have some other ideas too. I'm thinking of adding some strakes to the wing leading edge/intakes (ala F-5), some strakes to the fin and widening the fin a bit, and even adding a blade antenna to give it a bit of a realistic look. See before and after photoshopped images. I was also thinking about adding missle rails, but that would slow the plane down unless made removeable. Removeable drop tanks would also be tres cool, and good for show on the ground and in the air. I've see turbine powered BAE Hawks (which this plane resembles quite a bit) that have drop tanks and I like the look. I'd love to talk about these and other customizing ideas. Let's get the juices flowing. Going fast is a good thing, going fast in Style is even better... Mike
Posted on: 2/27/2012 11:18 AM by Author "Sygy00" in the forum "Extreme Speed Prop Planes"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10978482

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
Try again - the last two photos didn't upload. Mike
Posted on: 2/26/2012 11:00 AM by Author "Sygy00" in the forum "Extreme Speed Prop Planes"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10976748

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
More photos... Mike
Posted on: 2/26/2012 10:59 AM by Author "Sygy00" in the forum "Extreme Speed Prop Planes"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10976746

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
Here are some photos of my Jackal. You can see the details of the E-Flite electric retract installation. The nose gear is screwed directly to the nose gear beams, with some reinforcing on the inside since the screws are close to the inside edge. I used a Futaba radio and servos, and I used full size servos in the wings for flaps and ailerons. I just had to put a couple washers under the rear screws to allow the servos to fit. I did add some triangle stock at the rear of the compartment to clean up the blunt edge. You can also see the small extra battery that powers the retracts next to the receiver. I have some thin, closed cell, polyethylene foam that I use for everything since it is stiffer that foam rubber and does not absorb fluids (like fuel). I put two layers under the tank (about 1/8") and small blocks of it front and back of the tank. I've never had a foaming problem when I used this around the tank, but I've never had an engine running at 17,000 rpm either. In any case it should reduce foaming since the tank does not touch anything but foam. I also trimmed the lip off the tank to get a better seal with the stopper, but I am worried about this tank eventually splitting. Can anybody recommend a tank near 14 oz that will fit? I not having much luck finding one. The only real customizing I've done (so far) is adding the wing fences and painting in the canopy to make it look more like a single place fighter. I noted that someone was considering re-covering with a military scheme and I'd love to see how that works out if they do. I'd like to do the same. This weekend was a washout since the winds wouldn't die down, but I'm hoping to refly it soon. Mike
Posted on: 2/26/2012 10:58 AM by Author "Sygy00" in the forum "Extreme Speed Prop Planes"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10976744

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
Good idea - I'm not too keen on that type of tank. Need to see if I can fit a Sullivan.
Posted on: 2/23/2012 7:05 PM by Author "Sygy00" in the forum "Extreme Speed Prop Planes"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10973127

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
is compressed. Now it does. Cheers, Mike (aka Sygy00)
Posted on: 2/21/2012 7:56 PM by Author "Sygy00" in the forum "Extreme Speed Prop Planes"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10970106

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
Okay okay - I'll get pics. Weight is 7 lbs 13 oz with the extra retract battery, which seems OK as I was expecting to hit 8 lbs. I typically fly planes with a relatively high power to weight ratio and lower wing loading than this so this one does feel heavy to me in the air. Another improvement I plan is to add wing fences to the wings. I do this on all my planes that have any amount of sweep, and when done right, can dramatically improve slow speed handling. On landing my Jackal was pretty slow and the left wing was starting to fall off. I expect the fences to reduce or eliminate that tendency on landing or high G turns (I like high G turns).
Posted on: 2/21/2012 12:52 PM by Author "Sygy00" in the forum "Extreme Speed Prop Planes"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10969429

RE: H9 Jackal 50 Prop Jet
Howdy. Just joining this forum as I just maidened my Jackal. I read a lot of this discussion before I even bought the jackal and discussed the Jett muffler and OS 55 with Jett. Lots of great info in this thread, so thanks to all that contributed. Here are some details of my build... I used E-flite 25-46 size electric retracts since I had them available. On the mains I used a 1/16 shim to clear the top sheeting (mainly to clear the wires). I screwed the nose gear directly to the two longitudinal beams, with #6 washers under the front screws to get just a hair of tilt so the nose wheel would retract fully. Since the beams were a little far apart (leaving the screws too close to the edge, I just glued the provided wood blocks on the inside to ensure the screws had enough meat to grip and not split the wood. Worked like a champ. I was also able to use the existing cable tube to run a pushrod directly from the rudder servo to the steering link on the nose gear - just like it was made for it (NO WIRES!). I also used a separate AAA 1000mah battery to run the retracts. I think that little battery will cycle the gear 50 times or more on one charge. Installed an broke-in OS55 with a Macs muffler for maiden flights, but I have the Jett muffler ready to go once this beast is trimmed and I'm comfortable flying it. I did have build issues. All of the control surfaces bound up before I hit low rates, not to mention high, and the flaps (as I've seen in this thread) wouldn't go up all the way. I wasn't about to run my digital Futaba 3152 servos in a bind and drain the hell out of my battery, so I used a screwdriver to slightly smash the wood between the surface and the trailing edge to get more clearance. This also worked well and my flaps now go up past neutral and no servos are in a bind at full throws. I did have to re-iron at high heat to remove the slight folds this caused to the covering, but the whole skin needs re-ironing anyway. I also used full size 3152s for the ailerons and 3004s for the flaps. They almost fit, but all I had to do was put a washer under the rear screws of the hatch to allow the servos to clear the top sheeting. I also replace ALL of those 1.5 mm screws (throughout the plane) with #4 button heads. Recommend that to all. The last issue I had, which I have not seen here, is that my elevator horns interfered with the fuselage framing. I re-checked that my elevators were installed correctly and they were. I had to trim some of the fuselage framing and re-inforce above the horns to get enough clearance. I also mounted a 2500 NiMH battery in the fuselage pocket behind the elevator horns - with a little plywood to hold the battery in place. First flight (yesterday), went like this... Take off with LOTS of right aileron and LOTS of elevator to hold course. Trimmed out both and it flew fine. I can understand that I may have set the elevator wrong, but the amount of right trim indicates to me that I may have a warped wing. I use a technique that absolutely ensures all control surfaces are set precisely so that is not it. Upon landing I now have more than 1/16 right trim which is WAY too much. CG rechecked later and it is per spec. After a few minutes I decided to shoot a touch and go, lowered the landing gear, then lowered the flaps halfway and ballooned way up. Definitely need that flap-elevator mix. I was a bit high and expected to go around, but it slowed down suprisingly quick and landed like grease, but my nose gear collapsed even with the gently landing. This nose gear was involved in previous a crash, so it must have been damanged and I didn't notice. New one on the way. Whew! What a long disertation. Hadn't planned on this, but I guess I had more to share than I realized. I would appreciate any comments or suggestions!! Glad to post photos if anyone is interested.
Posted on: 2/21/2012 11:32 AM by Author "Sygy00" in the forum "Extreme Speed Prop Planes"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10969314