RE: Overall Finish Order?????
Mr. Sawyer, I wish I knew how you can see what we are doing down here all the way from Utah. You may be using the same scoring system as Mr. Batt, but I would bet my rent money that he is not useing it the same way as you, and others do. It has been somewhat secretive, and little, or no results have been posted during the races. There are several of us who believe that the computer makes it more complicated than it has to be.
Posted on: 8/6/2011 2:46 PM by Author "codbucket" in the forum "Club 40"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10658575

RE: Overall Finish Order?????
Batt, finally you have hit the nail on the head. WE are not having fun, because YOU are'nt doing it right !!!
Posted on: 8/5/2011 8:27 PM by Author "codbucket" in the forum "Club 40"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10657580

RE: Overall Finish Order?????
Roger that! If they would post anything that would let the pilots know their current standing, round by round it would be a great help indeed.
Posted on: 8/1/2011 3:41 PM by Author "codbucket" in the forum "Club 40"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10649970

RE: Overall Finish Order?????
Mr. Sawyer, I myself have flown in 5 or 6 club 40 races, and I have only seen heat cards used once, and that was at Alabaster where Dave Phillips was CD.
Posted on: 8/1/2011 12:40 PM by Author "codbucket" in the forum "Club 40"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10649688

RE: Overall Finish Order?????
Terry, a dry erase board is so much better than a computer simply because you can actually SEE it! In past races, they would post race results now and then, but there would be NO results posted at all toward the end of the races. Wear my shoe for a moment if you will. You are racing club 40, but at no time during the day do you have a clue as to where you stand in the points/placing. I don't mind getting beat by another pilot who just flew better than I did on a given day, but when I leave a race not knowing, or understanding what the hell just happened, well I kind of do mind that! I can only speak for myself here Terry, but it is me who is thankful that I do not live in So. Cal! Be blessed or whatever.
Posted on: 8/1/2011 10:02 AM by Author "codbucket" in the forum "Club 40"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10649477

RE: Overall Finish Order?????
Tim, here is my nutshell synopsis. You asked for input about improving the scoring system. More than a few people have said get rid of the computer. Club 40 is only complicated if you make it . I mean, a pilot either scores a 1, a 2 a 3 or a 4, or a zero. It seems like the common denominator in the thread was to use a chalk board, or a dry erase board. Write the pilot's names on the left, and then write their scores down after each race. After all the races are flown, fly off any ties, then put your top 8 in the B main, and A main and fly them! So far, many of us have seen your secret computer scoring system award a pilot a place in a B main race that he did not race in, and it also gave first place to a pilot who got the horn for a cut in a tie breaker. I mean, how does that work? Two guys are tied dead even in points, the two of them have a fly off, one guy flies clean, but the other guy cuts, but he wins. What computer program does something like that? Now you are saying you will set the scoring computer up on the judge's table in plain sight. You asked for input. You got the requested input, but you you ignore it, and keep the computer. I can see from the tone of this thread, and from your responses, that you do not intend to make ANY changes at all. You know, I have flown in many SPA events, and the scoring for it is way more complicated than club 40. Waaaayyyyyyyy more complicated. Each pilot has two judges for each round he flies. The manuvers are assigned a K factor according to their difficulty,the expert class flies 13 manuvers each time they fly, and I have never seen a single scoring problem, or dispute in SPA. Not once. Ya'll wake up. Something is wrong with club 40. For one, it is run like a dictatorship. Two the computer "scoring system" is screwed up, ot perhaps is being manipulated? And deny it all you want, some folks are running modified motors. What a damned shame. I could just cry! It used to be so much fun to fly club 40. So sad, now it seems that the wants of the few, out weigh the wants of the many. Tom C.
Posted on: 7/31/2011 6:49 PM by Author "codbucket" in the forum "Club 40"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10648483

RE: Overall Finish Order?????
I would agree that the quality control on these Taiwan made engines it not very tight, and that some may run a bit better than others, but not a whole lap better. Now if you slap a set of high speed bearings, or some ceramics, a .002 head shim, and a Merlin glo plug, that would better explain a lap or more advantage. Personaly, I am not willing to buy a set of bearings that cost half of what the engine did new, to win a particle board plaque. I guess it just comes down to what your definition of "stock" is.
Posted on: 7/27/2011 6:27 PM by Author "codbucket" in the forum "Club 40"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10642282

RE: Overall Finish Order?????
Pilotja5, I have to agree with you that D2 ran the most fair club 40 race at his club in Alabaster. Be it fun fly, club 40, or what have you, Dave plays it straight up. No behind the scenes scoring, just good, honest transparent score keeping. He even put 2 cut judges at each pylon, in an effort to diminish any argueing. Perhaps we should adopt his way of running / scoring club 40. I did not hear a single complaint about the way that race was done. In Alabaster the playing field was level!
Posted on: 7/26/2011 9:28 PM by Author "codbucket" in the forum "Club 40"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10640734

RE: Overall Finish Order?????
Mr. Erickson, you make some good points, and it sounds like you have been at this for quite a while now. I regret to say that down here in red neck country, it is NOT stock, stock, stock. We have 4 or 5 pilots on the circuit who among them at least a couple of them sometimes fly an erratic line around the course, and will pull off from a man flying a smooth, consistent line with a stock engine by a full lap or more. The mysterious unseen scoring system that is used here does very much cater to the hot shots, and not the newbies. What message does that send to an average sport flyer who wants to have some fun, and try his hand at club 40? Some radical changes are needed right away, or club 40 will continue to decline in our area until it dies out. What a shame that would be.
Posted on: 7/26/2011 9:14 PM by Author "codbucket" in the forum "Club 40"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10640719

RE: Overall Finish Order?????
Tim, I am sad to say that I, and others have witnessed the decline of club 40 since it began in our region. For instance, at the Huntsville race in 2010, there were over 20 pilots entered to race. One year later at that very same venue, there were about 8 pilots entered. I believe the reason for that decline is the fact that the "scoring system", seems to change at every race, and sometimes mid-race, and it is done behind the curtain, instead of being transparent like it should be. Use the K.I.S.S principle, leave the computer at home where it belongs, put up a dry erase board with every pilot's name on it, and write down the scores after every race. Simple, no smoke and mirrors, no voodoo or hocus-pocus. The CD should not race, and the score keeper should not race either. Unfortunately, several pilots at my club have pretty much quit racing club 40 for the simple reason that they know there is no chance of them ever winning, because you just can't ever tell who the magic scoring computer might randomly pick to win. I always thought, and read that club 40 was an entry level, club type of informal competition, that the common man could fly in, for minimal cost, and have a lot of fun doing it. But, it has devolved into something else entirely that the original organizers I'm sure never intended. I have read, and believe that I understand the rules, and unless my interpretation is wrong, club 40 is supposed to be flown with a stock plane, and a stock motor. Myself, and others believe that several pilots are flying modded engines. I mean, c'mon man, when some guy out pulls you by a lap or more he has to have a little something under the hood other than stock. Why not break out a "modded" class for these people seperate from the majority of us who do fly stock? Some people I guess sit up at night working on their engines in order to win a particle board plaque, in an event that was concieved so that every flier could race and have fun doing it! If those few are going to take club 40 that seriously, please jump into Q-500 or 424, and let us who just want to have fun fly club 40. Club 40 is broken, and if you all don't do something quick, it will cease to exist. I mean, for Pete's sake why else do you think we went from 25 pilots per race, to 8? If the pilots racing thought they were being treated fairly, and had as much of a chance at winning based on pilot skill, as it was intended, then don't you think we would still have 25 pilots, instead of just 8? If I am racing and I just fly bad, or crash, or my engine fades, I can come to grips with that reality, thats just the breaks. But when I race and during the race I don't even know what my score is, and after the race, I can't figure out how, or why someone won, well, it leaves you feeling less than fresh let's say. Please people, let's get back to running these races the way that club 40 was intended, so it will not die. Thanks, Tom C.
Posted on: 7/26/2011 4:56 PM by Author "codbucket" in the forum "Club 40"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10640290